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Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

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Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#371

Post by semi-extrinsic »

elif wrote: post #309
nfriedly wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're just as bad at identifying actual "weapons": I flew to South America with a layover in Miami a few years back. Got past TSA without any trouble on the domestic leg, then I had to go through again for the international leg. The second time through security, they said they saw a blade on the x-ray.. turns out they were right. I forgot I had left a multi-tool in my bag. Thankfully, they just trashed it and let m…

Very similar story about MIA. I flew out of ATL with a pocket knife, and lost it at MIA on the way back. Also conversely, ATL wouldn't let me carry-on my pool cue and forced me to check it, but at YUL on the way back, they had no problem with it. I think it's more of a roulette of circumstances more than a pattern of compliance/negligence, but it is curious to have 2 MIA data points.

Flying out of London Gatwick, I once had a pack of torx driver bits confiscated "because they're dangerous tools, you see". But they failed to confiscate the 8" flathead screwdriver that was also in the bag, much to my amusement when I found it during unpacking.

I also flew Oslo->Lisbon->Sao Paolo->Rio de Janeiro->Lisbon->Oslo about five years ago with a 7" soldering iron in my hand luggage.

Then there was the time when I had my bag very thoroughly searched flying out of Geneva because of a highly suspicious loaf of bread.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#372

Post by sokoloff »

grkvlt wrote: post #125
spdustin wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No retina scan for PreCheck, that's for Global Entry / Nexus.

No retina scan for anything, actually. NEXUS uses iris scanners [1] for biometric identification. In fact, pretty much anything that is reported as using a 'retina' scan is probably not, and is also an iris scan. Retinas are pretty useless as a biometric, and are quite hard to scan without opthamological equipment. Irises have the dual benefits of being unique to the individual, and visible on the outside of an indiv…

Iris scans are optional for Nexus as well. It's only require if you want to use the Nexus stations to enter Canada by commercial air.

I have a Nexus card (just got it last month) and if I only use it to enter Canada by land, sea, or private aircraft, I can skip the iris scan.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#373

Post by wutbrodo »

avn2109 wrote: post #102
luma wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay billions in your tax dollars to create a huge interference to free movement around the country, then pay hundreds more individually to get around some facets of the interference you already paid for. Also, let's throw in submission of your fingerprints and a background check into a database secured by hugely-ineffectual government organization. I can't imagine why everyone isn't leaping at the opportunity...

My dad grew up under the Soviets, where he learned a thing or two about waste, inefficiency, and systematic corruption. He says the following: "If the government ever gives you the chance to bribe them, do it immediately and with a smile. Pay double if they'll let you. You'll always come out ahead in the long run." Precheck/Global entry is clearly unrelated to actual security; instead, it's an obvious shakedown, plai…

> Precheck/Global entry is clearly unrelated to actual security; instead, it's an obvious shakedown, plain and simple. The TSA has given you a chance to pay them extra to be harassed less.

I'm not sure if that's true. So much of security is statistical (this is where profiling and stuff comes in, racial or otherwise). If you can spend some time doing a more thorough check beforehand[1], then you can (stochastically) assume that there's a lower chance of them being a threat and thus a lower need for screening each and every trip. The idea being that you're far less likely than average to get radicalized and hijack a plane if you're [insert features like type of job]. Frankly, I find it uncharacteristically intelligent of the TSA.

[1] My global entry interview required me to go in to the airport and show a bunch of documentation proving my place of residence, place of employment, etc.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#374

Post by sokoloff »

cookiecaper wrote: post #315
jessriedel wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than just membership fees. To join a precheck program, you need to submit personal information that they constitutionally can't force American citizens to provide, even at international borders: fingerprints and retina scans. So basically they hold huge amounts of your time hostage in order to force you to provide what ought to be protected info. It's similar to incentives for long-term contraception. The…

I don't think I'm really paranoid about my personal information. I remember a time when everyone's name, phone number, and address were published in a large white book and distributed to every home in the metro area. I think a lot of the hyperventilation about that stuff is a little over the top. However, I draw the line at biological data. That is permanent, irrevocable, unchangeable personal information that no one…

Philosophically, I agree, but it's a weak point of agreement.

I've already been fingerprinted multiple times for the armed services, for background checks for financial services jobs, for pilot authorization to fly into the DC SFRA and land at the MD/DC-3 airports, and maybe a few other reasons. My fingerprints are already in multiple databases and I don't have particular concern about giving them one more time.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#375

Post by tehwebguy »

gsnedders wrote: post #221
tehwebguy wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSA factors in if an item appeared to be intentionally concealed as well, I'm glad you didn't get a notice with a significant fine

The TSA has nothing to do with Heathrow where it was found, though. (I don't think in the UK anyone can be fined: if there's any belief of malice, you're likely to be dealt with under normal criminal law such as conspiracy to murder, or potentially terrorism related offences; if there's not, you can either surrender your property or return landside).

My bad, I misread it

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#376

Post by astrodust »

superuser2 wrote: post #304
astrodust wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're basically useless. The money would be better spent on agencies like the FBI that can prevent terrorists from ever showing up at airports. As Israeli security experts have said time and time again, if the terrorist gets to the airport it's already too late. Brussels is an unfortunate demonstration of this principle.

They are basically useless, but we still have to go through them to get to our flights. The fewer staff they have, the slower it goes. A sufficiently resourced-starved TSA might "succeed" at preventing attacks on passenger air travel by eliminating passenger air travel altogether. Once lines approach 4, 5 hours people will just drive.

Travelling by train is so ridiculously refreshing. Grab ticket online or at kiosk. Walk on train. Sit down.

There's nothing even close in the air travel world. Even Nexus people have to endure the occasional cavity search.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#377

Post by wutbrodo »

jsnell wrote: post #3

How is coming to the airport earlier supposed to solve what's obviously a throughput problem? Sure, for an individual it reduces the chances they'll miss their flight. But if everyone does it, there's obviously no change. The only way showing up earlier would help with throughput is if there are periods of time where the security is under-utilized with absolutely no queues. Which, from my experience with US airports,…

> The only way showing up earlier would help with throughput is if there are periods of time where the security is under-utilized with absolutely no queues. Which, from my experience with US airports, is a laughable idea.

Shrug, I've seen this plenty over the course of my life in the US, and I've only ever really flown big-city airports. It's not ubiquitous, but it's not like, super-rare or anything.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#378

Post by sokoloff »

zzalpha wrote: post #155
bkor wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like how AMS works since a year or so. I managed 4 minutes from sitting on the train to being after security (I timed it :-P). This includes: getting off the train, walking to security and opening up my backpack (no clue why it went off and they spent maybe 45 secs to verify this). Unfortunately this is not as quick anymore because more of the security people have now been diverted to do border checks. E.…

You clearly weren't flying to North America. Yes, they have that pod system (although it's a glorified serial security scanner so I'm not sure of the benefit), and then they herd you through the full body scanner. The line was as bad as any I've seen on this side of the pond.

The secondary screening at D1 for North America bound pax is well after that point.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#379

Post by laxatives »

fbuilesv wrote: post #352
laxatives wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've flown with shaving razors and pocket knives attached to my keys numerous times. They get found and confiscated about 20% of the time. I recently forgot to remove both and the TSA agent spent 5 minutes looking for something. He found the shaving razor, but not the pocket knife and was very pleased with himself. Its absurd the profiling going on with the TSA. If I dress well, I get rushed through the lines quickly…

Similar story here. I'm a smoker and usually do international/inside-US flights on a monthly basis. In 7-8 years the only lighters I recall losing have been in my home country (where pat downs and having your bags opened are a common thing). Curiously, I haven't had a TSA line longer than 45 minutes flying from places in NY, CA or FL (I mostly flight late evening/disgustingly-early morning though) in the last few mon…

FWIW I've had agents inspect my bad and allow me to keep lighters. I've only had lighters confiscated on a handful of international flights, and never in the US.

Yeah you're right its not fair to call them dropouts.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#380

Post by ctx »

a3n wrote: post #267
rjsw wrote: post #51

Why hasn't the TSA reacted to the Brussels Airport bombing and stopped herding passengers together so that they present a big target to terrorists ?

Have they stopped doing that at Brussels?

Not yet. People were in line for hours today [0], simply waiting to get to the first security checkpoint. Some even missed their flight.

[0]: http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/News/1.2645825

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