Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

theintercept.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 629 posts

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#171

Post by tashkent »

uph wrote: post #155
kiloreux wrote: post #21

Is telegram also blocked, I think it sounds like a good alternative that people can use now, if it's not already blocked.

A better alternative would be Signal https://whispersystems.org/ Telegram is a terrible alternative. Messages aren't even end to end encrypted by default and they're kept accessible on Telegrams servers. See the recent news on how a russian activists Telegram account got hacked giving them access to all stored messages: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2016/04/30/russia-telegram-h... Also this: Thomas H. Ptacek: By de…

Sounds Telegram is the type of messaging system that the judge would like Brazil to use.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#172

Post by spullara »

Fargren wrote: post #167
envy2 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seem to be a few problems with this analysis. First, WhatsApp is a US company and has no presence in Brazil. Under many readings of US law (specifically, ECPA), US companies are in fact prohibited from complying with requests from foreign law enforcement for content, except in emergencies. Instead, foreign law enforcement must make a request for assistance to the US DoJ, which will then (eventually, and maybe)…

If WhatsApp is unable to comply with Brazilian law, should it be allowed to operate in Brazil? I think this is a bad law by the way. Hopefully the clearly negative impact it is having will lead to it's reform.

It seems to me that they did comply with Brazilian law. They handed over all the conversations they had — zero. Is there a law that says they have to record all the conversations?

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#173

Post by MichaelGG »

soneca wrote: post #143
btreesOfSpring wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This ruling makes end-to-end encryption illegal where, a service provider at no time holds the keys to decrypt messages between communicating parties. This is a protocol decision and since the Snowden revelations, a point of concern for civil libertarians. The Apple v FBI debate is a child of these exact concerns. The idea that governments want to legislate unfettered access to private communications and devices shou…

I agree with you. And I think all this should be framed "is the law right? should we change it?"; instead is always presented as "an authoritarian, out of his league, small town judge who is arrogant and clueless about tech". He is just following the law, so fight the law, no diminish the judge. Remembering that a "single judge" following the law with authonomy launched the biggest attack on corruption of brazilian h…

No, judges need to notice when a law creates a contradiction or a stupid scenario and not make such rulings. Judges are supposed to have "wisdom". Pointing at a broken law, then breaking communications for everyone hardly seems wise. Unless he's secretly hoping this will force a big change in law and government.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#174

Post by coliveira »

lanna wrote: post #55
soapdog wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samstave, Just a bit of nitpick to save you some trouble in the future. Brazil is not poor. Brazil is the seventh world economy, if you count the number of nations in north america and europe, being the seventh world economy is a great deal. Also the division in 1st world and 3rd world is schewed upon today. Its akin to saying the N-word. There are much better, non-pejorative terms to be used. Brazil is a part of the…

there is no coup in place in brazil, stop spreading fud

The only people that say there is no coup going on are people supporting the coup. Please get informed about this discussion.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#175

Post by soapdog »

int0x80 wrote: post #97

You are full of crap. The seventh world economy in the terms you are refering to is meaningless. By your logic, is Brazil welthier than Switzerland or Netherlands? NOT even close. GDP is MEANINGLESS if you really want to know how the average citizen lives in a country. The fact is that in Brazil the prices/inflation are through the roof, housing and goods are extremly expensive and their salaries are ridicusly low. L…

I didn't downvoted you, actually, I agree with you. GDP is not the best way to measure or have this type of discussion.

GDP proves to us that the "country is rich", HDI tells us that "this richness is not distributed" which means that we have an endemic and self-perpetuating problem with wealth distribution and access to infrastructure, which I believe you'd agree.

I completely agree with your statement that we have a rampant and systemic corruption scheme in place here and that makes solving all of this mess an extremely complex problem.

Being the seventh world economy is not meaningless, it proves that with the correct measures in place, we have the economic power to move economy/jobs and wealth forward. If we could pair that with proper access to education and opportunities then we'd have a really marvelous place.

All the criticisms you made there are true and still, we're in a better place than 20 or 25 years ago, specially when we're talking about the low-income classes and impoverished. Lots of advancements there but nowhere close to solving the problem...

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#176

Post by edejong »

zanny wrote: post #105
notliketherest wrote: post #4

What most people outside of Brazil don't realize is that WhatsApp is almost universally used by Brazillians to communicate about EVERYTHING, even your doctor [0][1]. My wife is Brazillian and uses it to communicate with her family in Brazil every day. This will have disastrous consequences for Brazilians domestically and internationally. This policy is being put in place by unelected judges and cartel of monopolistic…

That sounds incredibly dystopian. A proprietary communication protocol made by a foreign company dominating all communications without recourse sounds like something out of 1984. I mean, if your doctor is using it, you know you are screwed the day Facebook does anything you disagree with, because you are wholly dependent on them at that point. That was why we even developed interoperable federated messaging protocols…

Don't forget, a lot of diseases are hereditary, so your children are screwed as well.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#177

Post by Zarel »

return0 wrote: post #121
wslh wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can disagree with the law, but the law is there. There is something called Civil disobedience ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience ) and surely if you analyze every law system it contradicts itself.

So, Facebook, a participant in PRISM, is now conducting civil disobedience. Totally believable.

Yahoo is also a participant in PRISM, and fought as hard as they could against it in secret court.

https://www.wired.com/2014/09/feds-yahoo-fine-prism/

I think it's safe to assume that all companies involved in PRISM aren't happy with it and tried their hardest to fight it.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#178

Post by latj »

sangnoir wrote: post #153
latj wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the most important part of the story. Facebook and Whatsapp are not ignoring the request. They have said that it is impossible for them to provide the information requested.

> They have said that it is impossible for them to provide the information requested. They have said this to the press or to the court? Because it seems to me like Fb/Whatsapp have been pointedly ignoring the courts for months. The least they could do is fly down a lackey to Brazil and say it in person and/or alternatively hire a Brazilian law firm to represent them.

They dont have to fly anyone down to brazil. They had someone there. He was arrested a few months go for not fulfilling the request. Its all in the article we are commenting on.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#179

Post by adrenalinelol »

meira wrote: post #46
myth_drannon wrote: post #3

Unlike in N. America, in Brazil a lot of businesses depend on WhatsApp. You can talk with your doctor, call a plumber, claim insurance. On billboards no one puts a website address or an email, just phone number and WhatsUp. That's an economy cripling move and it's shocking how one judge can do it.

More important. Why aren't congressmen creating rules to prevent these monopolies ?

The fact a simple messaging service outperforms giant, monopolistic telecoms should speak volumes to the level of kleptocracy present in Brazil.

This judicial ruling is a political power grab. Ask yourself this, who does banning WhatsApp actually punish more? Facebook or the people of Brazil? It's the latter by a mile. Standing behind the "law is the law" is a cop out when the law was clearly written by and for the domestic telecom industry. WhatsApp will set a dangerous precedent if they change their internal operations at the demand of any regulation.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#180

Post by rglullis »

notliketherest wrote: post #4

What most people outside of Brazil don't realize is that WhatsApp is almost universally used by Brazillians to communicate about EVERYTHING, even your doctor [0][1]. My wife is Brazillian and uses it to communicate with her family in Brazil every day. This will have disastrous consequences for Brazilians domestically and internationally. This policy is being put in place by unelected judges and cartel of monopolistic…

That's quite an overstatement. People know how to adapt. On the first court order, people were posting on Facebook about how to connect using VPN providers. Millions others downloaded Telegram.

I, for one, think that this kind of thing is a very good example on why we should NEVER rely on closed services. Whatsapp may be doing all of the right things (creating new features, improving privacy, keeping the product free and separate from FB), but it is still closed.

Post reply on HN