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WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

theintercept.com

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Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#131

Post by [deleted] »

latj wrote: post #90
soneca wrote: post #64

I'm here to defend the judge's ruling, a position very unpopular among all my friends here in Brazil. Brazilian law regarding regarding privacy of users of internet services is very recent and clear: if a judge order the company to share a specific user data, the company must comply. You can disagree with the law, but the law is there. Now, the judge ordered Whatsapp to share a particular user conversation (a suspect…

You are missing the most important part of the story. Facebook and Whatsapp are not ignoring the request. They have said that it is impossible for them to provide the information requested.

[deleted]

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#132

Post by honua »

soapdog wrote: post #34
samstave wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost like Brazil is the most technologically advanced poor-3rd-world-nation I know from my brief time at Facebook, they use Brazil user-searches in their intro classes to tableau reporting on users' graphs - "show me everyone in Brazil who is 18 years old and posted about subject-X"

Samstave, Just a bit of nitpick to save you some trouble in the future. Brazil is not poor. Brazil is the seventh world economy, if you count the number of nations in north america and europe, being the seventh world economy is a great deal. Also the division in 1st world and 3rd world is schewed upon today. Its akin to saying the N-word. There are much better, non-pejorative terms to be used. Brazil is a part of the…

> Also the division in 1st world and 3rd world is schewed upon today. Its akin to saying the N-word.

Thank you.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#133

Post by product50 »

soneca wrote: post #64

I'm here to defend the judge's ruling, a position very unpopular among all my friends here in Brazil. Brazilian law regarding regarding privacy of users of internet services is very recent and clear: if a judge order the company to share a specific user data, the company must comply. You can disagree with the law, but the law is there. Now, the judge ordered Whatsapp to share a particular user conversation (a suspect…

It is ok - you won't understand.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#134

Post by soapdog »

aerovistae wrote: post #51
soapdog wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samstave, Just a bit of nitpick to save you some trouble in the future. Brazil is not poor. Brazil is the seventh world economy, if you count the number of nations in north america and europe, being the seventh world economy is a great deal. Also the division in 1st world and 3rd world is schewed upon today. Its akin to saying the N-word. There are much better, non-pejorative terms to be used. Brazil is a part of the…

Your analogy between the terms 1st/3rd world country and that particular racial epithet is beyond absurd. To confirm this just try saying one or the other at work to test the reactions you get.

I am saying this because people do take offense on the 3rd world monicker. In many fields that term is considered offensive when used in public discourse. This is not a joke. What a group perceives as normal speech may be a term that in other circles is considered bad and better terms and classifications might be in place

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#135

Post by mcintyre1994 »

soneca wrote: post #64

I'm here to defend the judge's ruling, a position very unpopular among all my friends here in Brazil. Brazilian law regarding regarding privacy of users of internet services is very recent and clear: if a judge order the company to share a specific user data, the company must comply. You can disagree with the law, but the law is there. Now, the judge ordered Whatsapp to share a particular user conversation (a suspect…

> if a judge order the company to share a specific user data, the company must comply.

> They would have lawyers fighting against the decision to share the user data and this would be solved by the justice system (never coming to have its activity suspended).

So what would happen? Like you said that law, if you paraphrased it correctly, is very clear - how would lawyers shouting about it actually help? Would they change the law the first time WhatsApp fight back? Presumably not - otherwise the law would be pointless wouldn't it? So how would that stop their activity being suspended?

I'm trying to avoid jumping to conclusions, but to give you a chance to just tell me I'm wrong - is this protectionism?

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#136

Post by uph »

rakoo wrote: post #71
cortesoft wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, but the issue is that WhatsApp CAN'T comply with the order, because they do not have access to the communications (because they are using end to end encryption). I have no idea what you mean by "come up with ways to identify specific people targeted by court orders"... they aren't being asked to identify anyone, they are being asked to hand over unencrypted communication, which they do not have access to.

End to end encryption in Whatsapp is extremely recent, I doubt the information the judge is after falls under that.

https://whispersystems.org/blog/whatsapp/

"The most recent WhatsApp Android client release includes support for the TextSecure encryption protocol, and billions of encrypted messages are being exchanged daily. The WhatsApp Android client does not yet support encrypted messaging for group chat or media messages, but we'll be rolling out support for those next, in addition to support for more client platforms. We'll also be surfacing options for key verification in clients as the protocol integrations are completed."

This was in 18 Nov 2014. The latest announcement from last month was:

"Over the past year, we've been progressively rolling out Signal Protocol support for all WhatsApp communication across all WhatsApp clients. This includes chats, group chats, attachments, voice notes, and voice calls across Android, iPhone, Windows Phone, Nokia S40, Nokia S60, Blackberry, and BB10.

As of today, the integration is fully complete. "

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#137

Post by ex3ndr »

kiloreux wrote: post #21

Is telegram also blocked, I think it sounds like a good alternative that people can use now, if it's not already blocked.

Some brazil users started to - Actor (actor.im)

Disclaimer: CEO of Actor and Ex-Telegram employee.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#138

Post by coliveira »

soneca wrote: post #64

I'm here to defend the judge's ruling, a position very unpopular among all my friends here in Brazil. Brazilian law regarding regarding privacy of users of internet services is very recent and clear: if a judge order the company to share a specific user data, the company must comply. You can disagree with the law, but the law is there. Now, the judge ordered Whatsapp to share a particular user conversation (a suspect…

I see your point, but what is scandalous in this decision is not that WhatsUp is being shut down, but the way this is happening. You have a judge from a remote jurisdiction in Brazil who has enough power to shut down the service in the whole country. I wound't be surprised if this resulted as a process that went through several levels of justice in Brasil, but the fact that any judge can block a service in the whole country is completely crazy and a direct threat to free expression in the country.

Of course, knowing Brazil as I do (I am Brazilian) I am not surprised that this is happening. In fact, judges these days feel that they have power to block even actions of the president of the Republic.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#140

Post by wslh »

return0 wrote: post #121
wslh wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can disagree with the law, but the law is there. There is something called Civil disobedience ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience ) and surely if you analyze every law system it contradicts itself.

So, Facebook, a participant in PRISM, is now conducting civil disobedience. Totally believable.

I was not talking about Facebook but about Brazilians.

Also, following your reasoning, if Facebook was a participant in PRISM, does it mean they don't have any right to fight? Privacy is at stake here, Facebook is only one problem instance.

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