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Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

nytimes.com

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Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#331

Post by gerbilly »

cm2187 wrote: post #116
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theory is, because of the checks no further attempts will be made. Its one thing to die for your cause; another to be arrested for your cause and disappear forever anonymously.

I can also carry a clown hat all day long and it will keep the pink elephants away. But there are not pink elephant! Then it means my hat is working! My theory on planes hijacking is rather that if you have a bunch of arabs taking over a plane today (after 9/11, the Paris attacks, etc), the passengers will think that doing nothing will lead to certain death, and therefore it will be impossible for the terrorists to c…

>I can also carry a clown hat all day long and it will keep the pink elephants away.

Not if you just _carry_ it it won't. Everyone knows you have to wear it.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#332

Post by chimeracoder »

spinlock wrote: post #245
lostInTheWoods3 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a wine opener confiscated because of the 1 inch knife ... can't imagine how someone might use a wine opener to hijack a plane

The 9-11 hijackers used razor blades. So, its been done. Of course, no American passenger is going to believe that everything will be fine if they comply these days so I don't think its possible to pull off 9-11 again.

> The 9-11 hijackers used razor blades. So, its been done.

Only in the days when we didn't lock the cockpit doors. Now that the cockpit doors are locked, even an actual gun wouldn't be sufficient to hijack the plane (the cockpit doors are essentially impossible to open from the outside, at least not without equipment that would be impossible to bring on a plane and would be rather conspicuously slow to use during a flight).

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#333

Post by pavel_lishin »

dawnerd wrote: post #244
lettergram wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't get a warning, but I did have my bag opened, all my belongings thrown out on the ground, and was delayed for 30-45 minutes... All this because I had a box of poptarts that apparently looked like a bomb.

Thats funny. I had an unopened box of amazon aa batteries which really looked like a bomb on the x-ray (got to see it when they were inspecting). We both laughed about it when the lady saw what it was. I could tell he was really nervous though. Took me all of 5 minutes to resolve. Guess some tsa agents are just not very good at their job.

> Guess some tsa agents are just not very good at their job.

Probably depends on the metric you're using to evaluate that.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#334

Post by nommm-nommm »

cookiecaper wrote: post #283
bitwize wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scanner will flag it up. I left headphones in my pocket; they were flagged. I got rained on before entering the airport; my damp clothes were flagged. This will make you subject to a mandatory groping at the very least.

Yeah, the scanners are very sensitive and will highlight any abnormality. When I flew earlier this month, the TSA agents were walking up and down the line announcing "Empty your pockets completely, including all tissues, papers, and lint; they will show up on the scan". This is true and has happened to me multiple times.

I was waiting outside the bathroom while some TSA agents were chatting. They were talking about how very skinny people with protruding bones set off the body scanner.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#335

Post by chimeracoder »

tehwebguy wrote: post #160
messick wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If happened in California, and since you at a LoL con it sounds like you were, the TSA officer was correct. Possessing throwing stars (shrunken) can get you up to a year in prison: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&gr...

Right, California is one of a handful of states with a definition for (and a ban on) throwing stars. A few hundred lines or so up the penal code from your link the definition can be found. What I had was a toy and did not meet the definition. The police, who are local and have at least a basic understanding of California's laws, immediately knew it was not a throwing star. I'm not sure if TSA is allowed to touch weap…

> I'm not sure if TSA is allowed to touch weapons, but they refused to attempt to handle this item even after police arrived.

The TSA is not allowed to touch weapons, and the police are not allowed to perform the sorts of pat-downs that the TSA provides[0].

Incidentally, packing a gun in your checked luggage is supposedly the best way to make sure nothing ever gets stolen. If you pack a gun (even a flare gun will do), you are required to lock it with a lock for which only you hold the key, and the TSA cannot open it without calling the police in case they need to look inside. Not to mention, the penalties for them losing a piece of luggage that has a declared firearm inside it are way worse than the penalties for when they steal something from your luggage[1].

[0] Jurisdiction-dependent, of course - but police have to meet a much higher bar to pat people down than the TSA do.

[1] Which is to say, 'nothing', because there are essentially no penalties for TSA employees who are caught stealing, even repeatedly. It's absurd.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#336

Post by jdavis703 »

tlrobinson wrote: post #248
spinlock wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I can't support high speed rail enough. You get from downtown nyc to Washington dc without having your human rights violated. And its faster too.

What makes you think they wouldn't institute similar TSA-style [1] security on a shiny new high-profile high speed rail? 1. Or literally the TSA: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyo...

Right, Spain already does this. And I've during high-profile events I've seen TSA patrolling the main subway stations in Washington, DC.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#337

Post by nommm-nommm »

cwkoss wrote: post #316
vinay427 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>2) the allocation of employee resources to the "pre check" line leaving less staff for 90% of travelers. I don't think this makes sense, unless in your airport the PreCheck line is sometimes empty and the staff there are waiting around. Otherwise, they can allocate fewer staff than in every other line yet process more travelers due to the faster process. This speeds up security for everyone, not just those with PreC…

PreCheck line is almost always empty at my airport.

Indeed.

They used to divert non pre check travelers to the pre check lane (I've been diverted before) but the article says they don't do that anymore.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#338

Post by harmegido »

knz wrote: post #78
hashkb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just go get pre check?

My objection to precheck is that I question how effective it really is. Not to dive into another controversial topic, but it reminds me of proponents of gun control who think that background checks will solve mass shootings. Passing precheck doesn't stop people who appear to have a normal background and doesn't stop people from being radicalized after they get precheck. Perhaps a better solution would be somewhere in…

You're assuming that there is any effectiveness at all in TSA's procedures. I'm highly skeptical of that myself. It seems they are always fighting the last war. Someone just tried to detonate a shoe bomb? Better make people take off their shoes.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#339

Post by Elepsis »

tyrust wrote: post #254
avn2109 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad grew up under the Soviets, where he learned a thing or two about waste, inefficiency, and systematic corruption. He says the following: "If the government ever gives you the chance to bribe them, do it immediately and with a smile. Pay double if they'll let you. You'll always come out ahead in the long run." Precheck/Global entry is clearly unrelated to actual security; instead, it's an obvious shakedown, plai…

>you'd be dumb not to pay up It's a difficult decision, one that I've been wrestling with for a while. Imagine if everyone (and I mean everyone) collectively said "This is bullshit." and refused to pay for PreCheck. The TSA would have no choice but to stop the program. This is probably the only way they would stop it (beyond legislation, ha.). Unfortunately this will never happen. People don't want to stand in line.…

While I agree that if no one paid for PreCheck they'd probably stop the program, I think you're making a follow-on assumption which is "and then the security theater would get better for everyone else."

What we're seeing with the hours-long lines right now is that this simply isn't true. The TSA has no particular incentive to reduce the number of hoops you have to jump through: if anything, a summer like this will probably increase their budget.

So, indeed: pay up for PreCheck and smile because they've given you the opportunity.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#340

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #27

I love how this process was reengineered in London Gatwick airport. Each scanner has 6 pods where you can pack and unpack your stuff; you've got a dedicated person assigning you to the pod. The process felt much more parallel rather than serial. Edit: managed to find more info on it http://airlines.iata.org/analysis/smart-security-getting-sma...

I like how Russian airports do it. There are huge stacks of trays and large free spaces. You put your stuff into the trays and then stack them up and carry them to the belt, then go through one of the many non-busy scanners, then grab your trays and go back to a huge empty area to put on your stuff again. Feels much nicer because you have all the time in the world to get your stuff in order without holding up people.
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