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Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

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Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#311

Post by RyJones »

tlrobinson wrote: post #261
nfriedly wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're just as bad at identifying actual "weapons": I flew to South America with a layover in Miami a few years back. Got past TSA without any trouble on the domestic leg, then I had to go through again for the international leg. The second time through security, they said they saw a blade on the x-ray.. turns out they were right. I forgot I had left a multi-tool in my bag. Thankfully, they just trashed it and let m…

My friend accidentally took a multi-tool through airport screening shortly after 9/11 and had to lawyer up to get the resulting shitstorm to go away (and he's white and an American citizen) On the other hand, I remember when I was a kid in the 90s and accidentally took my pocket knife (3" blade) through screening, and they found it but let me bring it on the plane...

I used to take my CRKT M16-14 knife on the nerd bird SJCSEA round trip twice a week. Nobody cared. This was mid-90s until just before 9/11. I didn't try to hide it - just tossed it in the bin with my keys etc.

https://www.copsplus.com/prodnum4396.php

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#312

Post by tgb »

raldi wrote: post #183
tgb wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I don't understand. I'm contesting your claim that airports would have to hold more people than they currently are if people showed up earlier to account for the longer lines.

Let's say everyone shows up to the airport 3 hours before their flights. At 9:00 on Monday, the airport holds all people with flights departing between 9:01 and 12:00 -- 3 hours' worth of people. Now you change that, asking people to show up 24 hours before their flights. At 9:00 on Monday, the airport holds all people with flights departing between 9:01 Monday and 9:00 Tuesday -- 24 hours' worth of people, eight tim…

Your numbers are exaggerated to make a point, but I think it actually changes things. My claim is that the airports are already holding the extra people, compared to before the wait time increase. They're waiting in line to get through the TSA checkpoint. Getting there early enough to make your flight doesn't change this: you still spend the same amount of time in the line, then go to your gate and board your flight.

Unless everyone is abandoning the line and going home since they're going to miss their flight (unlikely).

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#313

Post by 2a0c40 »

CrazyCatDog wrote: post #266
kogepathic wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> costs $1500 and about 6 months to process the paperwork that lets her stay Really not cool. Probably justify it by saying it takes a lot of time to process paperwork (that they created the requirement for in the first place...) Did you know that it also now costs $2350 for someone to renounce their US citizenship? It also takes an undefined amount of time (typically 12+ months) and they publish your name online on…

Revoking citizenship is a costly exercise. It was previously subsidized by all tax-payers, now it isn't. Not that it matters to the price/cost of doing it, but what do you think are the most common reasons for forfeiting US citizenship? I suspect it's tax-evasion.

Please read this: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/14/about-the-isaac-brock...

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#314

Post by DanielBMarkham »

superuser2 wrote: post #168
tehwebguy wrote: post #25

Here's an awesome TSA story for you: Late last year while trying to fly out of LAX a TSA employee thought I was carrying a throwing star. They called the police, who correctly identified as a toy in seconds. I thought the whole ordeal was over until I got a "notice of violation" in the mail from TSA 45 days later. Now I'm banned from pre-check for three years, even though I have global entry and even though the fine…

Please fund them fully or eliminate them entirely. The inbetween states just suck for everybody.

There is no funding them completely, because there's no definition of good enough. Whatever money you throw at them, the system will eat it up and ask for more.

It's gotta be killed. Immediately. It's a horribly bad idea that's just sinking its claws in further with each passing day. In fact, the politicians have probably already figured out -- we're stuck with them forever. I just wish they'd come out and be honest about it: infinite money sink, longer and longer lines, security theater, and more bullshit stories. Year after year.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#315

Post by cookiecaper »

jessriedel wrote: post #38
dccoolgai wrote: post #13

Seems like a perverse incentive to let them slow down the lines so you have to buy a "membership" in their precheck program. "Nice flight you have there...be a shame if you missed it."

It's worse than just membership fees. To join a precheck program, you need to submit personal information that they constitutionally can't force American citizens to provide, even at international borders: fingerprints and retina scans. So basically they hold huge amounts of your time hostage in order to force you to provide what ought to be protected info. It's similar to incentives for long-term contraception. The…

I don't think I'm really paranoid about my personal information. I remember a time when everyone's name, phone number, and address were published in a large white book and distributed to every home in the metro area. I think a lot of the hyperventilation about that stuff is a little over the top.

However, I draw the line at biological data. That is permanent, irrevocable, unchangeable personal information that no one really has a right to. It's not like you can just go unlisted, change your number, or move to avoid the heat. It's a basic component of your being. That data should be closely guarded. It creeps me out that some gyms have started using the little fingerprint scanners to verify access. I don't travel that frequently, but I wouldn't get PreCheck because I want to keep that personal biological information private.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#316

Post by cwkoss »

vinay427 wrote: post #193
vincefutr23 wrote: post #4

Blaming volume? How about 1) the switch from metal detectors to less numerous and slower body scanners? 2) the allocation of employee resources to the "pre check" line leaving less staff for 90% of travelers. 3) still having to take belts and shoes off even with a full body scan? This program has gotten seriously out of hand and is incredibly frustrating. I don't care if it's 3 hours or "75 minutes" anything over 15…

>2) the allocation of employee resources to the "pre check" line leaving less staff for 90% of travelers. I don't think this makes sense, unless in your airport the PreCheck line is sometimes empty and the staff there are waiting around. Otherwise, they can allocate fewer staff than in every other line yet process more travelers due to the faster process. This speeds up security for everyone, not just those with PreC…

PreCheck line is almost always empty at my airport.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#318

Post by cookiecaper »

strictnein wrote: post #68
dccoolgai wrote: post #13

Seems like a perverse incentive to let them slow down the lines so you have to buy a "membership" in their precheck program. "Nice flight you have there...be a shame if you missed it."

They did exactly that at MSP (Minneapolis/St. Paul), almost literally. They recently consolidated the checkpoints from 4 down to 2. No one knows why, but they did. Security immediately went from 30 minutes to 2 hours. They blamed everything from funding (which they received $91 million more than they asked for in 2016) to people's bags (which somehow changed overnight). When the local government and our fed reps comp…

One time I went through, PreCheck was being hawked actively. Random people were getting automatic PreCheck allowances on their boarding passes so they could "try it out". Very commercial vibe around that.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#319

Post by enjo »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #226
enraged_camel wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will funding them "fully" accomplish? Do you believe that their inability to catch terrorists is a matter of lack of funding?

This is like the time I asked someone on Reddit what they meant by funding education "fully." They said, "double." So... we'd be a world leader in primary and secondary education again if we just spent twice what we currently do? Well, I guess it was an answer. There are 2 kinds of people: those who think that more money will somehow fix everything (them), and those that think more money will only exacerbate the prob…

>As a matter of fact, as I write this, I think that may be the single most significant distinction between "conservativism" and "liberalism," as practiced in the US.

Ugh.. no it's not. That's a massive mischaracterization of liberalism. Liberals, by and large, do not think that throwing additional funding at things (for the sake of additional funds) will improve systems. It's an unfounded and cartoonish view of liberal policy.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#320

Post by cookiecaper »

kidsthesedays wrote: post #305

Story time! I once wore a glitter sweatshirt through airport security. It made the backscanner machine go crazy and mark my entire shirt area as suspect, back and front. TSA was like "oh, it's the glitter on your shirt." As a result I was subjected to the most ineffective "pat down" ever. The TSA agent ran her hands across my shoulders and clavicle area and that's it. I could have hidden a small arsenal of weapons in…

Yes, I wore a shirt with raised lettering and could clearly see its arc highlighted as red on the machine after I went through. The agents cleared me without further investigation.

High false positive rate can lead to a lot of unsafe situations.

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