Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID • Hacker News Board

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#101

Post by bitJericho » Mon, May 02, 2016, 6:34 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #82

bitJericho wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well imagine a criminal is holding a piece of your property or even a person and not revealing where that is. Do you think it's reasonable to hold them for 30 days and then let them go and say "ah well I guess you can return that/them if you want cuz you did your time." A charge of contempt is still a charge.

Do you think it's reasonable to imprison someone for life if they don't tell you where they hid your car? And holding a person is already a separate charge - kidnapping and unlawful imprisonment.

You can be charged with both. I hope you never have to deal with someone who flaunts the courts in your face. You'll be glad the system works the way it does, if anyone bothers to enforce the law.

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#102

Post by illumin8 » Mon, May 02, 2016, 6:36 PM UTC

gherkin0 wrote: post #75

Lxr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you are prepared in advance, after they take your phone you likely won't have the chance to turn it off.

There should also be a timer that puts the phones into require-password mode. So after a few hours they'll need more than a fingerprint. Maybe you should also have the option of setting up a "coercion fingerprint(s)", which if used to authenticate would put the phone into require-passcode mode. Then, if the court compels you to unlock your phone with your fingerprint, you can put yourself back into 5th amendment terr…

There is- after 48 hours iOS will require the PIN again to enable Touch ID.

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#103

Post by ianopolous » Mon, May 02, 2016, 6:36 PM UTC

JoshTriplett wrote: post #2

You can be compelled to provide fingerprints based on a warrant; I'm unsurprised (and not particularly bothered) that you can be compelled to use them on your own device. If you care about security, don't use a fingerprint alone; at most, only use it as a second factor for two-factor authentication. More generally, don't use anything that removes your ability to make a choice under duress, in whichever direction you…

This is why we need plausibly deniable dual login on all accounts, ala truecrypt.

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#104

Post by coldcode » Mon, May 02, 2016, 6:39 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #71

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #9

Touch ID is disabled when an iPhone initially powers on. So, if you want to prevent law enforcement compelling you to decrypt using your fingerprint , hold down the power button and then slide right to power off the phone. Now they need your password.

It's also disabled after 48h from your last TouchID login. I'm surprised that this order can be compelled in such a short timeframe.

Legal niceties take much longer than this. Once 48hrs is passed your fingerprint is useless to unlock the phone. At that point there is nothing they can do since they cannot demand you give them the code. A finger is part of your body, the passcode is only in your head.

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#105

Post by headShrinker » Mon, May 02, 2016, 6:41 PM UTC

bitJericho wrote: post #35

JoshTriplett wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contempt is a terrifying charge, because under current law, you can be jailed indefinitely for the same contempt charge for as long as you refuse to cooperate with whatever the court thinks you should cooperate with. There's no upper bound there. So that wouldn't solve the problem.

I don't think its a problem for someone actively breaking the law to be held indefinitely for contempt until they stop breaking the law. I thought being compelled to reveal a passphrase was no longer required.

Prove that they broke the law!

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#106

Post by [deleted] » Mon, May 02, 2016, 6:42 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #83

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contempt is a weird power in general, especially when it's used for reasons like "disrespecting the judge." If I am disrespectful to the governor of my state, or if I'm disrespectful to a police officer, or if I'm disrespectful to a fireman or a bailiff or a legislator or a district attorney or a teacher or the President, that is a thing that I can legally do. But for some reason it's not outrageous for a judge to se…

Contempt is appealable, so it's not as if a single judge could ever detain someone indefinitely.

[deleted]

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#107

Post by emdd » Mon, May 02, 2016, 6:43 PM UTC

cloudjacker wrote: post #8

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #5

Always remember: your fingerprint is identification. You can be forced to identify yourself to law enforcement. Do not make it your password. Your password is something you know, not something you are.

Or just restart your iPhone.

Correct that you cannot be compelled to unlock your phone (with a code, not Touch ID) or reveal the passcode?

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#108

Post by superuser2 » Mon, May 02, 2016, 6:45 PM UTC

maaku wrote: post #45

5th amendment: "No person shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself." How does this not apply here?

The same way a search warrant can force you to hand over your diary.

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#109

Post by stcredzero » Mon, May 02, 2016, 6:47 PM UTC

JoshTriplett wrote: post #2

You can be compelled to provide fingerprints based on a warrant; I'm unsurprised (and not particularly bothered) that you can be compelled to use them on your own device. If you care about security, don't use a fingerprint alone; at most, only use it as a second factor for two-factor authentication. More generally, don't use anything that removes your ability to make a choice under duress, in whichever direction you…

You can be compelled to provide fingerprints based on a warrant; I'm unsurprised (and not particularly bothered) that you can be compelled to use them on your own device.

I thought that fingerprints were to be provided to:

  1) establish biometric proof of identity
  2) establish the presence of a person in a particular place
  3) establish a person handled a particular object

Or does the law establish that the authorities can use fingerprints for evidence in any fashion? Could they use a scan of a fingerprint to etch a fake-fingerprint latex sheet to open your locked device?

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#110

Post by stcredzero » Mon, May 02, 2016, 6:48 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #68

msbarnett wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing. The 3d printer is overkill. A fingerprint and a pack of gelatin is more than sufficient.

Have you personally done or seen this done this then? Quality of the print production seems pretty important...

Mythbusters did it.