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Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

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21–30 of 215 posts

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#21
post #4

You can be compelled to provide fingerprints based on a warrant; I'm unsurprised (and not particularly bothered) that you can be compelled to use them on your own device. If you care about security, don't use a fingerprint alone; at most, only use it as a second factor for two-factor authentication. More generally, don't use anything that removes your ability to make a choice under duress, in whichever direction you…

You've described the state of the law as it is, but surely that doesn't address the issue of the law as it should be. I think that it is possible to be an intelligent but non-technical person and (EDIT: forgot the word 'not') realise that, all technical issues aside, the "something you know" and "something you have" parts of a password are on completely different legal footing; and I think that it is reasonable even…

"Something you have" isn't part of a password, its an alternative, non-password factor; passwords are always "something you know".

There is a trend to use biometrics in place of passwords, which is a convenience feature which compromises security, even though it is often misrepresented as a security feature. (Using biometrics as a second factor helps security, but there is a big difference between "and" and "or" security measures.)

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#22
post #4

You can be compelled to provide fingerprints based on a warrant; I'm unsurprised (and not particularly bothered) that you can be compelled to use them on your own device. If you care about security, don't use a fingerprint alone; at most, only use it as a second factor for two-factor authentication. More generally, don't use anything that removes your ability to make a choice under duress, in whichever direction you…

You've described the state of the law as it is, but surely that doesn't address the issue of the law as it should be. I think that it is possible to be an intelligent but non-technical person and (EDIT: forgot the word 'not') realise that, all technical issues aside, the "something you know" and "something you have" parts of a password are on completely different legal footing; and I think that it is reasonable even…

Courts are not (and should not be) interested in "the law as it should be." They are to interpret the law as it is written.

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#23
post #4

You can be compelled to provide fingerprints based on a warrant; I'm unsurprised (and not particularly bothered) that you can be compelled to use them on your own device. If you care about security, don't use a fingerprint alone; at most, only use it as a second factor for two-factor authentication. More generally, don't use anything that removes your ability to make a choice under duress, in whichever direction you…

You've described the state of the law as it is, but surely that doesn't address the issue of the law as it should be. I think that it is possible to be an intelligent but non-technical person and (EDIT: forgot the word 'not') realise that, all technical issues aside, the "something you know" and "something you have" parts of a password are on completely different legal footing; and I think that it is reasonable even…

per your edit, you seem to forget you're at HN.

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#24
I'm not sure why this is surprising, under current precedent,you can be forced to type in your password (https://articles.forensicfocus.com/2012/02/09/another-judge-... covers some cases, but there are a lot of cases).

Touch ID is not really different.

In general, one of the only reasons you won't be forced to type in your password is if the act of proving you have the password is somehow incriminating (IE there is a dispute over ownership, etc).

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#27
post #4

You can be compelled to provide fingerprints based on a warrant; I'm unsurprised (and not particularly bothered) that you can be compelled to use them on your own device. If you care about security, don't use a fingerprint alone; at most, only use it as a second factor for two-factor authentication. More generally, don't use anything that removes your ability to make a choice under duress, in whichever direction you…

You've described the state of the law as it is, but surely that doesn't address the issue of the law as it should be. I think that it is possible to be an intelligent but non-technical person and (EDIT: forgot the word 'not') realise that, all technical issues aside, the "something you know" and "something you have" parts of a password are on completely different legal footing; and I think that it is reasonable even…

> but I'd like to be told how rather than just downvoted!

It's probably in the tone of your comment, which (though it isn't the case) implies that there's something wrong with the laws.

I'd edit and rephrase in your position, especially since your criticism isn't of the law but is rather of the education of users. To your point: if users of devices could be educated in-device about the security of different identification and authentication schemes, the user could take better ownership of the security of said user's device.

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#28

You can be compelled to provide fingerprints based on a warrant; I'm unsurprised (and not particularly bothered) that you can be compelled to use them on your own device. If you care about security, don't use a fingerprint alone; at most, only use it as a second factor for two-factor authentication. More generally, don't use anything that removes your ability to make a choice under duress, in whichever direction you…

The person who is being held indefinitely for not giving up his password is really frightening. They should either let him go or charge him with contempt of course/obstruction and issue time served!

Even if you /know/ you don't have anything illegal on any of my encrypted devices, it's better to take a contempt of court charge than give up a password...because of what they might /find/ or possible things unrelated to an investigation that they can link to a crime (or what they can then plant).

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#29

You can be compelled to provide fingerprints based on a warrant; I'm unsurprised (and not particularly bothered) that you can be compelled to use them on your own device. If you care about security, don't use a fingerprint alone; at most, only use it as a second factor for two-factor authentication. More generally, don't use anything that removes your ability to make a choice under duress, in whichever direction you…

The person who is being held indefinitely for not giving up his password is really frightening. They should either let him go or charge him with contempt of course/obstruction and issue time served! Even if you /know/ you don't have anything illegal on any of my encrypted devices, it's better to take a contempt of court charge than give up a password...because of what they might /find/ or possible things unrelated to…

Contempt is a terrifying charge, because under current law, you can be jailed indefinitely for the same contempt charge for as long as you refuse to cooperate with whatever the court thinks you should cooperate with. There's no upper bound there. So that wouldn't solve the problem.

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#30
post #4

You can be compelled to provide fingerprints based on a warrant; I'm unsurprised (and not particularly bothered) that you can be compelled to use them on your own device. If you care about security, don't use a fingerprint alone; at most, only use it as a second factor for two-factor authentication. More generally, don't use anything that removes your ability to make a choice under duress, in whichever direction you…

You've described the state of the law as it is, but surely that doesn't address the issue of the law as it should be. I think that it is possible to be an intelligent but non-technical person and (EDIT: forgot the word 'not') realise that, all technical issues aside, the "something you know" and "something you have" parts of a password are on completely different legal footing; and I think that it is reasonable even…

"You've described the state of the law as it is, but surely that doesn't address the issue of the law as it should be."

Fingerprints and other things like them are 100% non-testimonial. The fifth amendment does not cover non-testimonial evidence (because it only covers being a witness against yourself).

This has been law since the amendment was enacted, was the purpose of it, etc.

So I suspect if you want the law to be something else, your problem isn't even with the courts or judges, it's with the founders :)

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