Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security • Hacker News Board

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#151

Post by ibejoeb » Mon, May 02, 2016, 3:38 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #97

Hondor wrote: post #35

If a terrorist wanted to kill a lot of people confined into too small space to run away, what better target than these densely packed zig-zag queues? Really, what's the point of protecting a plane carrying hundreds of people by putting those same people into harm's way like that? It already happened in China - Muslim terrorists killed dozens of people waiting in a ticket hall a couple of years ago.

There are a large number of places with densely packed people. The unique thing about airports is their access to airplanes and their capacity to be used as weapons. (I'm taking a broad view of "weapon" here; even old-school hijack-and-divert is still a political "weapon".) If it weren't for that, they wouldn't be particularly interesting and wouldn't need special security. If someone blows up the line, well, they di…

I know what you're saying, but disagree that the point of these operations is to weaponize vehicles.

The airport itself is a distinct target. A successful attack at an airport would disrupt travel and commerce for weeks, as we just saw in Belgium.

Nothing immediately comes to mind to mitigate this. We can only push so far upstream. We can move the screening to empty fields a mile away from airport structures and require that passengers walk themselves over lest the shuttle bus be appropriated...

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#152

Post by borvo » Mon, May 02, 2016, 3:41 PM UTC

intrasight wrote: post #101

I rarely fly, so consider my statement in that context. I actually approve of the TSA making flying more onerous. Flying comes at a very high environmental and economic cost to society. We need more trains, more hyperloops, and more VR.

Not going to work in low density regions like all of the USA aside from the coasts. Flying is less polluting per mile than driving btw. Also, why don't the rest of us get together and punish your choices?

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#153

Post by cm2187 » Mon, May 02, 2016, 3:42 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #143

cm2187 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can also carry a clown hat all day long and it will keep the pink elephants away. But there are not pink elephant! Then it means my hat is working! My theory on planes hijacking is rather that if you have a bunch of arabs taking over a plane today (after 9/11, the Paris attacks, etc), the passengers will think that doing nothing will lead to certain death, and therefore it will be impossible for the terrorists to c…

That's been tried - that was the plane that crashed on 9/11 heading for Washington(?) Not an ideal outcome.

One can argue that the passenger have reacted too late, after hearing what happened to the other planes.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#154

Post by ibejoeb » Mon, May 02, 2016, 3:44 PM UTC

spdustin wrote: post #113

jessriedel wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than just membership fees. To join a precheck program, you need to submit personal information that they constitutionally can't force American citizens to provide, even at international borders: fingerprints and retina scans. So basically they hold huge amounts of your time hostage in order to force you to provide what ought to be protected info. It's similar to incentives for long-term contraception. The…

No retina scan for PreCheck, that's for Global Entry / Nexus.

Only NEXUS requires an iris scan, and only for entering Canada via an air border.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#155

Post by zzalpha » Mon, May 02, 2016, 3:44 PM UTC

bkor wrote: post #72

dzhiurgis wrote: post #27

I love how this process was reengineered in London Gatwick airport. Each scanner has 6 pods where you can pack and unpack your stuff; you've got a dedicated person assigning you to the pod. The process felt much more parallel rather than serial. Edit: managed to find more info on it http://airlines.iata.org/analysis/smart-security-getting-sma...

That sounds like how AMS works since a year or so. I managed 4 minutes from sitting on the train to being after security (I timed it :-P). This includes: getting off the train, walking to security and opening up my backpack (no clue why it went off and they spent maybe 45 secs to verify this). Unfortunately this is not as quick anymore because more of the security people have now been diverted to do border checks. E.…

You clearly weren't flying to North America.

Yes, they have that pod system (although it's a glorified serial security scanner so I'm not sure of the benefit), and then they herd you through the full body scanner. The line was as bad as any I've seen on this side of the pond.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#156

Post by malchow » Mon, May 02, 2016, 3:48 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #103

sneak wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can drop "around the country". Your nation or any other nation's national borders do not make free and unimpeded travel any less of a basic right for all people, in all places.

Free and unimpeded travel is not a basic right for any people, in any place. It's supposed to be within the US, though, just like in Schengen. That's due to law, not some magical "right", though. edit: what is a "basic right" supposed to be, anyway? I missed that day in philosophy class.

It's not even due to law; it's due to the founding nature of the Republic. Arguably not even a constitutional amendment could permit restrictions on Americans' interstate travel.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#157

Post by youngtaff » Mon, May 02, 2016, 3:50 PM UTC

dzhiurgis wrote: post #27

I love how this process was reengineered in London Gatwick airport. Each scanner has 6 pods where you can pack and unpack your stuff; you've got a dedicated person assigning you to the pod. The process felt much more parallel rather than serial. Edit: managed to find more info on it http://airlines.iata.org/analysis/smart-security-getting-sma...

Heathrow has something similar - never ceases to amaze me how poorly planned many US airports are in comparison to European ones, and how little space they actually allow for screening

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#158

Post by raldi » Mon, May 02, 2016, 4:03 PM UTC

tgb wrote: post #138

raldi wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The airport can't hold that many people.

The number of people in the security line is dependent only upon the rate at which they are processed and the total number arriving for their flights, doesn't depend upon how early people get there. And once people get through the lines, there's no change from before so there'd be no large increase in how many people are in the waiting areas. (Except for the increase in uncertainty in how long the lines will take, th…

I'm not contesting that; I'm just pointing out a separate reason it wouldn't work.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#159

Post by raldi » Mon, May 02, 2016, 4:04 PM UTC

tehwebguy wrote: post #49

raldi wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of toy was it?

It was from League of Leagends (Sivir). It's not sharp or aerodynamic, just a "spinner" toy. One of the vendors from the League convention I put on gave it to me as a token of thanks just before the event ended. I dropped it in my bag and forgot it until flying a few weeks later. Bonus: My business partner was given the same one and the same thing happened at BUR. TSA asked if she wanted to mail it home, she said "to…

I'm having trouble picturing this. Could you upload a photo to imgur?

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#160

Post by tehwebguy » Mon, May 02, 2016, 4:13 PM UTC

messick wrote: post #139

tehwebguy wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you never find yourself on the other side of someone with the badge, even though these people don't even have the power to arrest me it was very scary feeling like they thought I was a criminal and nothing I could say could convince them otherwise. "Did you know what you did was a felony? Did you know it's illegal to possess one of these?" - that's what I had to endure until the police arrived. For the crime o…

If happened in California, and since you at a LoL con it sounds like you were, the TSA officer was correct. Possessing throwing stars (shrunken) can get you up to a year in prison: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&gr...

Right, California is one of a handful of states with a definition for (and a ban on) throwing stars. A few hundred lines or so up the penal code from your link the definition can be found. What I had was a toy and did not meet the definition.

The police, who are local and have at least a basic understanding of California's laws, immediately knew it was not a throwing star. I'm not sure if TSA is allowed to touch weapons, but they refused to attempt to handle this item even after police arrived.

If this sounds stupid it's because it is. Someone threatened me with jail time and then came back to haunt me even after the police said there was no weapon. I retained an ex-TSA attorney, learned the laws and fought hard to understand the process.

In the end I just got on the phone with my case agent who quickly Nerfed my violation soon after I sent the email. Nothing that can be done about the PreCheck ban though.