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Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

nytimes.com

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Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#141

Post by jlg23 »

danieltillett wrote: post #40
grandalf wrote: post #26

Some suggestions for how to improve the situation: 1) Set up a large booth where people can sign up for the TSA pre-check program inside the airport, while they are waiting for their delayed flight, etc. 2) Institute fees for carry-on baggage and reduce fees for checked baggage to reduce the number of bags being screened. 3) Have a separate line for passengers with no carry-on bag that moves 5x faster. 4) Publish sta…

The best solution is to have everyone go through it. No fast lane, no special categories, just eveyone lined up including those in private jets. If the powerful had to stand in line with the plebes then the TSA would be history before the end of the month.

Then you just have more small airports offering connection flights to the next hub. At least some years ago that was how the people who could afford it circumvented LAX' security: Check in in Santa Monica, fly 5 minutes to LAX in a small plane, go directly to your international flight in LAX.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#142

Post by tgb »

jowiar wrote: post #76
harperlee wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everyone comes a minute before departure, all lose the flight, whereas if everyone comes 24 hours earlier, none will miss the flight, so there is obviously a change. Plus you get people to sit in a huge store without any means to leave. So the airport doesn't have a throughput problem! They don't have a problem at all, as there is also no clear alternative - normally there is only 1 airport to choose from. So peop…

Well, the effect is that the airport needs to open earlier in the AM, so anecdotally it just shifts the entire dance an hour earlier. The problem with saying "everyone come 2 hours early", is that now, if you show up 1 hour early, you have traffic from later flights. Anecdotally, when I've flown on evening flights recently, the security line is 2 minutes long (because nobody is showing up early), whereas the 6am line…

Shifting it earlier is the point, since the plane will leave on time regardless of when the people get there.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#143

Post by JoeAltmaier »

cm2187 wrote: post #116
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theory is, because of the checks no further attempts will be made. Its one thing to die for your cause; another to be arrested for your cause and disappear forever anonymously.

I can also carry a clown hat all day long and it will keep the pink elephants away. But there are not pink elephant! Then it means my hat is working! My theory on planes hijacking is rather that if you have a bunch of arabs taking over a plane today (after 9/11, the Paris attacks, etc), the passengers will think that doing nothing will lead to certain death, and therefore it will be impossible for the terrorists to c…

That's been tried - that was the plane that crashed on 9/11 heading for Washington(?) Not an ideal outcome.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#144

Post by spdustin »

danieltillett wrote: post #40
grandalf wrote: post #26

Some suggestions for how to improve the situation: 1) Set up a large booth where people can sign up for the TSA pre-check program inside the airport, while they are waiting for their delayed flight, etc. 2) Institute fees for carry-on baggage and reduce fees for checked baggage to reduce the number of bags being screened. 3) Have a separate line for passengers with no carry-on bag that moves 5x faster. 4) Publish sta…

The best solution is to have everyone go through it. No fast lane, no special categories, just eveyone lined up including those in private jets. If the powerful had to stand in line with the plebes then the TSA would be history before the end of the month.

There are no powerful people going through those lines. Just semi-rich ones. The GP's list would be more effective. And only if it got enough people to participate in our government by writing/visiting our representatives and demanding en masse to be heard. I just don't see that happening now.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#145

Post by dap »

hashkb wrote: post #30
sneak wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Body searches to travel without suspicion of wrongdoing are absurd, period.

Just go get pre check?

I've been very tempted to apply for PreCheck -- it seems like a great deal -- but I find it deeply problematic that the government would create a security screening mechanism so onerous that people gladly hand over their fingerprints to avoid it. The fact that that's even legal incentivizes them to make the normal system as onerous as possible.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#146

Post by tgb »

creshal wrote: post #5
rayiner wrote: post #2

> At the same time, he said, the number of T.S.A. screeners has declined by about 5,800 because of tighter budgets. The agency currently has 42,350 agents assigned for security checks. Such a monumentally wasteful jobs program.

$7 billion a year just for the TSA budget. That's not counting all the indirect economic losses from the security theatre.

NSF budget is only $7.7 billion for 2016 FY. Sigh.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#147

Post by Havoc »

Why is this so much worse state-side though? All the European airports seem fine & I don't think they're significantly less thorough (or effective).

One thing I did notice EU side is that procedures differ wildly not just from airport to airport but also from day to day. e.g. Last flight they took particular interest in my DSLR - switched it on & wanted to look through the viewfinder to make sure the lens is an actual optical lens. Flight before they didn't even make me take it out the bag.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#148

Post by warfangle »

vincefutr23 wrote: post #34
hashkb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just go get pre check?

Why should we all pay more for a side line? Shouldn't the government make the main one effective ?

But then we wouldn't be applying the invisible hand of the market to fix things!

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#149

Post by jlg23 »

grecy wrote: post #131
CaptainZapp wrote: post #24

This, in combination with American airports being completely ignorant to the transit concept must cost American airline companies dozens, if not hundreds of millions a year in lost revenues. Case in point: if I want to to fly from Zurich to Lima I have essentially two choices: I can connect either in Amsterdam, or in Madrid. Madrids legal connection time is 55 minutes max (on Iberia). In AMS on KLM it's a maximum of…

While living in South America I talked to hundreds of travelers from Europe who were forced to connect through the USA on their way south, and they all had to clear customs, even if for just a one hour layover. The hoops they had to jump through, and the stories they told. 99% vowed they would never again board a plane to the USA.

True. I have to get from Medellin, Colombia to Puerto Plata, Dominican Republic soon. I had three choices:

* about 10h travel time via MIA and/or JFK for $240 (+ $50 for ESTA)

* 4.5h via Panama City to Punta Cana plus 8h on a bus for $800

* 17h via Curacao, Aruba, Saint Martin to Santo Domingo and then 5h on a bus for $320 (+ $70 for night in a hotel on Curacao and transfers to/from the airport, + $20 Curacao Airport ripoff fee)

Curacao, here I come!

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#150

Post by spdustin »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #19
cm2187 wrote: post #9

That's a lot of hassle for what is little more than a placebo. In the 40y that terrorists have been targetting planes, I am not aware of a single major terrorist attack that has been stopped by passenger checks.

The theory is, because of the checks no further attempts will be made. Its one thing to die for your cause; another to be arrested for your cause and disappear forever anonymously.

And the reality is, physical screening measures will always result in the "bad guys" getting more clever with circumvention methods.
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