After ‘The Biggest Loser,’ Their Bodies Fought to Regain Weight • Hacker News Board

Re: After ‘The Biggest Loser,’ Their Bodies Fought to Regain Weight

#41

Post by rayiner » Mon, May 02, 2016, 1:43 PM UTC

bb85 wrote: post #32

rayiner wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder why, when we talk about obesity, there is this tendency to use language that removes responsibility from the person, or at least move it from their mind to their "body", as if they were different entities. I wonder why, when we talk about obesity, "responsibility" even enters the discussion. Obesity is a nationwide phenomenon, which means for "responsibility" to be the root cause, we have to posit that peo…

I'm just wondering why there seems to be more empathy towards people with eating habits problems, than when it comes to other addicts. Maybe because they cause less damage to other people? I don't think humans are less responsible, on a society scale obviously the problem is deeper. I'm just wondering why for other problems we blame people, but not for that one. Maybe it has to do with addictions moving away from som…

> I'm just wondering why there seems to be more empathy towards people with eating habits problems, than when it comes to other addicts.

Because 75% of the country doesn't have a moderate to severe coke addiction. "Addiction" is what we call behavior that falls outside the "normal range" on the bell curve. What the majority of people do is by definition "normal" and so when you have a problem that afflicts the majority of the population, the problem is considered structural rather than aberrational.

Re: After ‘The Biggest Loser,’ Their Bodies Fought to Regain Weight

#42

Post by VLM » Mon, May 02, 2016, 1:44 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #13

dempseye wrote: post #2

> The difficulty in keeping weight off reflects biology, not a pathological lack of willpower affecting two-thirds of the U.S.A. Fifty years ago, two-thirds of the USA were not obese. Biology has not changed in that time. What has?

Intake of refined sugars. The amount of time spent sitting at a desk.

If you believe the internet memes, the desk was not invented until 1980. Ditto the car, the burbs, the commute...

Pictures of my great grandpa's accounting firm open office compared to a typical 2016 open office from 1920 (yes I'm old, a sterotypical HN reader's G-Grampa would be in the 50s) are pretty enlightening WRT just how little of an effect the magical post-1980 desk has on obesity.

Now what happened in the 80s ... well, not the magical fat generating desk. HFCS? Hmm. What a coincidence.

Another pictorial example of a consistent social class for decades is the local masonic lodge has an annual pix of the lodge leaders and members going back to the civil war. Yes a hallway lined with over a hundred annual photographs. Even among the semi-wealthy who sat at desks all day, nobody was fat until post 1980s pix. I'm the first in four generations not to be a Mason.

If you're into genealogy its very interesting to pull group family reunion photos from the last century or so. Same people, same genetics, same social class, same lifestyle, same geography, suddenly in the 80s people start getting real fat, across the board, across occupational classes, across lifestyles. Even the jocks got fat (note that jock fat is a staggering doubling of body fat from 4% to 8%, they're both skinny compared to the general population AND twice as fat as they were)

Re: After ‘The Biggest Loser,’ Their Bodies Fought to Regain Weight

#43

Post by bb85 » Mon, May 02, 2016, 1:44 PM UTC

gnur wrote: post #14

bb85 wrote: post #8

I wonder why, when we talk about obesity, there is this tendency to use language that removes responsibility from the person, or at least move it from their mind to their "body", as if they were different entities. I think obese people fit the definition of addicts. Most of the time, other addictions are fought by pushing awareness on the person, forcing them to recognize they have a problem and that they need to cha…

It seems like the piece actually takes away some of the responsibility of the person. If your resting metabolism burns 400 calories per day less, you can eat exactly the same as someone else and slowly gain a lot of weight. I really don't think there is anyone to blame in that case.

That doesn't explain it though, as how much you weight and how happy you are with it should influence how you eat.

Obviously a kid and an adult, a sedentary female and an international athletes have different needs.

When you have tooth problems, you go through a lot to have it fixed. When your hair looks bad you get a haircut.

Some obese people change their lifestyle and lose that weight. So what about those who can't? Is it too hard because of whatever predisposition (or, as other comments point out, having a huge industry putting tasty things in front of them), or do they just feel better being big?

Re: After ‘The Biggest Loser,’ Their Bodies Fought to Regain Weight

#44

Post by TillE » Mon, May 02, 2016, 1:44 PM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #30

gnur wrote: post #12

This is a truly horrifying piece of information. It basically amounts to that going on a diet will make it harder to stay at the weight you had before your diet.

Severe dieting has long been know to do that. Mild dieting combined with exercise seems to work better. We're a bit lacking in quantification on that though. It was interesting to get some numbers from the article.

Yeah, this is what I'm curious about. All the weight loss diets described in the article seem quite extreme, some even dangerously so.

Maintaining something like a 200-400 calorie deficit will lose you weight slowly but surely, and maybe hopefully not cause extreme changes in metabolism?

Re: After ‘The Biggest Loser,’ Their Bodies Fought to Regain Weight

#45

Post by emodendroket » Mon, May 02, 2016, 1:44 PM UTC

bb85 wrote: post #37

emodendroket wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The food industry has a significant number of people employed whose whole job is to make you think foods are healthier than they are and get you to eat more of them. I mean it's not by accident that almost every food in the supermarket ended up with some health claims on the box (my favorite examples of this are, like, "natural" eggs and "gluten-free" meats). That's assuming you're buying your own food; if you're eat…

Interesting, so I guess it's an education problem? I guess just like real-talk sex-ed went against the interest of big-church, teaching some basics when it comes to nutrition would hurt a lot of big-food...

I don't think it's just that, although many have found it suspect that the dairy industry gave a lot of funding that helped the development of the original food pyramid with dairy as a core food group.

To me it's more like the current environment, to borrow a programming term, makes it difficult to "fall into the pit of success."

The NYT ran a great article on this a few years ago: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary...

Re: After ‘The Biggest Loser,’ Their Bodies Fought to Regain Weight

#46

Post by varelse » Mon, May 02, 2016, 1:45 PM UTC

IndianAstronaut wrote: post #34

varelse wrote: post #15

Extreme diligence seems to be the only way to fight this. If I stop exercising, the pounds pack on within weeks. If I insure I burn at least 3000 calories a day (usually much more), I can maintain my weight indefinitely. But I walk to work and I exercise for 1-2 hours daily. Most people cannot or will not do this. Add in the extreme carbohydrate and fat-laden diets most readily available to America and it's a perfect…

How do you manage the 1 to 2 hours of daily exercise with a programmer lifestyle(assuming you are a programmer)?

I get up from my desk and go to the gym mid-day or I do so at the end of the work day depending on my flow. Also, I've cut most meetings out of my life, especially pointless time-eaters like daily scrum.

Also:

1. No kids

2. I only watch 4-6 hours of TV per week

3. I walk to work, there's an extra hour right there at the expense of a higher rent (totally worth it). Previously, I worked from home

4. Most of my social life revolves around exercise rather than tech

5. Don't work for self-destructive managers

TLDR: Find your way to a results-oriented rather than a process-oriented position.

Re: After ‘The Biggest Loser,’ Their Bodies Fought to Regain Weight

#47

Post by yoodenvranx » Mon, May 02, 2016, 1:45 PM UTC

nicolas_t wrote: post #36

And I'm in the second week of the Fast 5/2 diet. Not very encouraging to read this. Problem though is that I have to diet, my triglycerides are off the chart, my LDL cholesterol too and my fasting blood sugar are at the limit.... Hope I can keep my weight off somehow later.

Just start to write down every single calorie (and perhaps the macros) you consume during the day. This way it is pretty easy to see if you are on the right track.

Most people re-gain weight after a diet because they fall back into their old habits.

For this reason I don't like the idea of "making a diet". It kind of implies that you suffer for 8 weeks to lose some weight and then you can start eating unhealthy again because your diet is over. Forget your idea of "diet" and do a permanent change in your eating habits. If you do it slow you will not suffer that much and the effect will be permanent.

Re: After ‘The Biggest Loser,’ Their Bodies Fought to Regain Weight

#48

Post by mankyd » Mon, May 02, 2016, 1:46 PM UTC

IndianAstronaut wrote: post #34

varelse wrote: post #15

Extreme diligence seems to be the only way to fight this. If I stop exercising, the pounds pack on within weeks. If I insure I burn at least 3000 calories a day (usually much more), I can maintain my weight indefinitely. But I walk to work and I exercise for 1-2 hours daily. Most people cannot or will not do this. Add in the extreme carbohydrate and fat-laden diets most readily available to America and it's a perfect…

How do you manage the 1 to 2 hours of daily exercise with a programmer lifestyle(assuming you are a programmer)?

As a software engineer who does this - you make time for it.

These days, I work out during lunch usually. I used to hit the gym on the way home in the evening. I take public transit and it was right at my stop.

It's not different than any other industry, honestly.

Re: After ‘The Biggest Loser,’ Their Bodies Fought to Regain Weight

#49

Post by jukkasarasti » Mon, May 02, 2016, 1:46 PM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #24

blfr wrote: post #3

Boxers and other people doing martial arts competitively have always known this. There has been a "walking around weight" concept since I can remember. Maintaining lower or, even more importantly in that context, higher weight takes concentrated effort. BTW it's a really weird post-Christian belief that there is some you apart from your body and it can do things against your will.

>weird post-Christian belief that there is some you apart from your body The body/mind have a lot of different parts doing different things. In the article the folks conscious minds tried to lose weight and the body's mechanisms tried to regain it. Not sure that's that weird?

I totally agree. Lots of parts of the body are in conflict at any given time. For example, visual stimuli "compete" for cognitive processing. There's no unified "you", so it makes sense to say that part of you is trying to lose weight while another part is trying to gain it.

It's certainly not dualism in the Christian sense, but the idea that the mind is made up of many semi-independent agents has been around since at least the 80s, probably earlier.

Re: After ‘The Biggest Loser,’ Their Bodies Fought to Regain Weight

#50

Post by JabavuAdams » Mon, May 02, 2016, 1:46 PM UTC

bb85 wrote: post #22

amelius wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intake of refined sugars. The amount of time spent sitting at a desk.

That doesn't explain how someone can just let it happen to the point of suffering of it every day without taking simple measures to reverse it. Most of the time the difference between steady gaining or losing weight is a few hundred calories a day. That's far from a lifestyle change. When moving around becomes difficult, when dating becomes harder, when the aches and pain start... there's gotta be more to it than jus…

People generally do what those around them do. Why was smoking so much more popular 50 years ago? Why do people still smoke in 2016? Why is spanking almost child abuse, now?

It's not like we're rationally considering each small action. Instead, at any time, in a give society, there are a set of behaviours that are considered within the normal range. We're mostly on autopilot.