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Why you shouldn't exercise to lose weight

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Re: Why you shouldn't exercise to lose weight

#281
I started working out heavily to lose weight, but also to "feel better." I succeeded at both points, but it took an extremely long time to hit my goal weight. Looking back, it's clear I was eating too much to compensate for the additional work I was doing.

I gained half of that weight that I lost back pretty quick because I couldn't keep up the strenuous exercise routine. So, the next time I instead focused on my eating habits and skipped formal exercise entirely (mostly just went for walks instead). I had much more consistent and predictable weight loss week-over-week and now I'm about to surpass the goal I had the first time I tried in 1/3 of the time. It really came down to small portions -- I didn't have to give up many types of food, I just didn't eat nearly as much of it as I would have in the past.

This echoes experiences from people I know. They start out with a strenuous exercise routine and it's fun in the beginning to push yourself, but most people can't sustain it. Or they get injured and that sets them down a path of being lazy and gaining the weight back.

Re: Why you shouldn't exercise to lose weight

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, unless I'm hellbanned for going against fatlogic. Could you not do that, please? I was with you up to that point. You don't need to be a dick about it.

No, you do . It's not being a dick. I'm not going to get into the details of how I know this but this is a very important point. So, let's use the example of my girlfriend. We're not in America now but might go there in the future. So, 33% of America is obese [1] and my girlfriend loves food. She knows she's on the heavy side by local standards here, but I don't judge her for it! Judgment doesn't work. Also, in my op…

I'm not arguing with your logic, I'm arguing with your delivery. The psychological mechanisms you're describing are real, and they're a serious problem for people trying to lose weight (among other things), and helping those people defeat them is a good thing.

It's that bit at the end, where you seem to imply that there's a conspiracy of fat people out to suppress the truth, that bugs me. I have only ever seen the word "fatlogic" used by the kind of people who set up Reddit forums to discuss how much they despise fat folks. Associating yourself with that undermines your credibility, and that's a shame, because your ideas appear to be fairly solid.

Re: Why you shouldn't exercise to lose weight

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you do . It's not being a dick. I'm not going to get into the details of how I know this but this is a very important point. So, let's use the example of my girlfriend. We're not in America now but might go there in the future. So, 33% of America is obese [1] and my girlfriend loves food. She knows she's on the heavy side by local standards here, but I don't judge her for it! Judgment doesn't work. Also, in my op…

I'm not arguing with your logic, I'm arguing with your delivery. The psychological mechanisms you're describing are real, and they're a serious problem for people trying to lose weight (among other things), and helping those people defeat them is a good thing. It's that bit at the end, where you seem to imply that there's a conspiracy of fat people out to suppress the truth, that bugs me. I have only ever seen the wo…

>The psychological mechanisms you're describing are real, and they're a serious problem for people trying to lose weight (among other things)

This is, respectfully, fatlogic. "The psychological mechanisms of saying I will go to the gym tomorrow but then not going are difficult to defeat." This is not true. It's fatlogic to say so. I'm about to make the OPPOSITE point to what you think, so read the rest of this paragraph carefully. Do you have enough money? Do you have workout clothes? Do you know of a gym nearby? Are you comfortable enough showing up to work out?

Personally, if I were as overweight as my girlfriend the last one would be a "No". I literally wouldn't go to the gym - instead I would LITERALLY work out at home for a few weeks until I started to look more normal.

But guess what! I only arrived at that by first IDENTIFYING that the statement "there is a psychological mechanism keeping me from going to the gym" is FALSE - it's fatlogic.

There's an ACTUAL -- NOT PSYCHOLOGICAL -- reason not to go to the gym, which is that until some progress is made via home workout the other people at the gym will judge you and it's not a good enough experience. But there's an easy way to combat this, by first starting to work out at home.

This is an actual, real, fact. Also, let me tell you something. There's no PSYCHOLOGICAL REASON that a person can't eat a salad so bad I would throw it out. It's an actual reason: it's next to inedible! It doesn't taste good enough.

So by removing your fatlogic, we can arrive at the correct transition:

Wrong, fatlogic: "There's a psychological thing keeping me from eating plain lettuce with a bit of vinegar after I choose to eat plain lettuce with a bit of vinegar. I just need more willpower." Wrong. There's an ACTUAL REASON.

Corrected: "There's an actual reason I don't eat lettuce with a bit of vinegar, it doesn't taste good enough for me. It's next to inedible, it's like physical torture." (I know it's like physical torture, because that's what it is for me, and I'm not overweight.) "... So I should learn how to make a tasty fucking salad. I need to google how to make a fucking salad, because I suck at it, I should learn the caloric and especially protein contents of different foods, and learn to make a fucking rocking salad. Then it'll be delicious to eat a salad. Let me start by buying some cucumbers, tomatoes, olives, a couple of kinds of cheese, some salad dressings after I look at their ingredients, croutons, sardines since I like them, tuna, and because of what my boyfriend is saying some chicken to grill, then I'll just experiment for a few days and see if I can concoct something edible."

You see! By the way I don't require anyone to eat salads all the time, I was just using this as an example. Eat whatever you want.

But the fatlogic version stops at "but I have psychological problems." Nope! That's fatlogic.

Phasma, I was hugely for banning the fatshaming reddit that you mention. I specifically defended banning it. You can read me doing so here:

https://www.reddit.com/user/throwaway22382/

So, check it out. I wrote that it was appropriate for that hate speech to be banned.

So, guess what. It kind of turns out that I was completely wrong. I'm not going to get into the details of how I found this out, but actually, I was completely off-base with that declaration.

By the way, in purely technical terms, yes, there is actually a "conspiracy to make people fat." A conspiracy is any two people working in secret against a third.

You don't think this happens? Really? You need to take a marketing class. By the way, I don't like the word conspiracy as you've used it. By this definition 100% of all marketing departments everywhere are conspiracies, since there are some things they don't share with their customers. So I don't like your use of this term.

But to circle back to what we were talking about. The psychological mechanisms are not difficult to defeat and it puts zero strain on my girlfriend or any of my friends whom I've helped when I point it out. People just need to identify them.

I don't believe in fat shaming whatsoever. But fatlogic is real, and it's super easy to fix. Let me point out that I've easily done this with multiple of my friends.

It doesn't involve any judgment or shaming whatsoever. I can give you specific examples of a "conspiracy" (don't like this term) against fat people by marketing departments, if you really want me to.

Re: Why you shouldn't exercise to lose weight

#284
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is purely anecdotal... I'm now almost 40 years old and have never been overweight a day in my life. Over the past 20 years my weight has always stayed within about a 15 pound range no matter how much/little I ate and/or exercised. I participated in a caloric intake study at one point in time and I had a higher caloric intake than anyone in the study group. I was not trying to eat more; it was just that until I h…

Try reproducing the "supersize me" documentary results. If you cannot reproduce the results, then there is something strange in your genetics.

Supersize me fails replication: https://www.sott.net/article/126285-Supersize-me-revisited-u...

Yes, healthy people gain weight on 5,000 calorie per day diets. No, they don't develop all the metabolic and psychological maladies described in the documentary.

Re: Why you shouldn't exercise to lose weight

#285
post #237
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're not in into the anaerobic zone, I don't think you're really weightlifting. You're dropping the weight so low that you're just doing cardio.

There is plenty of Oxygen to handle a single lift. Just not a rapid full set at near max weight. The specific transition point varies based on a wide range of factors,mbit simply waiting between each individual lift is enough to stay aerobic.

I'm skeptical about how aerobic weightlifting can be before it isn't really weightlifting, but also not too interested in arguing. Some weightifting protocols such as German volume training do seem like they must contain a decent aerobic proportion.

Re: Why you shouldn't exercise to lose weight

#286
I've lost over 130 pounds in the last two years and I deliberately avoided high intensity exercise during that time. I find it very hard to moderate my hunger when doing regular high-intensity exercise. I would take long, slow walks a few times a week, and would rarely feel hungry while maintaining a very high daily caloric deficit. (In fact, I often felt quite full. I drank beer frequently, indulged in a pint of Ben and Jerrys a few times a month, ate out a lot, etc.)

In my experience it's most important to find a way to eat at a caloric deficit that feels natural, do-able, and fun. Even rapid weight loss takes a very long time, so you need to build it into your lifestyle. If you're like me and you like beer, ice cream, and dining out, then it's mainly a matter of portion control. I ate what I liked, but I learned to moderate portions and listen to my body. I ate until I was no longer hungry, and then no more.

Re: Why you shouldn't exercise to lose weight

#287
post #114

I've found online reaction to this article quite interesting. Normally data and study minded folks bring out the "anecdotally, this doesn't seem true" responses, and people seem think the article is attacking exercise as a concept. It's not. It's saying that if a person's goal is to lose weight, then adjusting to a good diet is far more important than (a reasonable amount of) exercise. The article does not claim that…

I think to accurately display the relative effectiveness of diet and exercise for weight loss is something like this: diet & exercise >> diet >>>>>>>> exercise I like this quote: "You work hard on that machine for an hour, and that work can be erased with five minutes of eating afterward"

While that's true in isolation, if you do the birth control thing of success rate with average usage, I imagine diet alone will massively win out. Diet and exercise, to someone who does not enjoy the exercise, is significantly harder to do than just dieting. People who struggle to lose weight generally struggle to achieve just one of dieting or exercising, so advising them to focus on the easier and more effective option is best.

Obviously, it varies person to person - if someone enjoys a team sport enough to exercise and still combine it with good diet, great. Those people don't tend to be the ones struggling with weight loss, however.

Re: Why you shouldn't exercise to lose weight

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> exercising might actually be harmful to their weight loss goals, due to how we tend to overestimate how many calories were burned The actual number of calories burned exercising is unaffected by our mental estimates. Thinking you earned the right to eat junk food is the problem, not exercise.

Exercise makes me ravenous, I'm certainly not the only person for which that is true. Swimming is the worst offender, IME. I can be vigilant, but even knowing that I didn't burn enough calories to counterbalance that meatball sub I want to get after my workout, doesn't help all that much in keeping me from actually buying it anyway. This is similar to the problem of calories in = calories out. Dieting isn't a chemist…

Yes.. dear lord when I was a competitive runner every post-workout made me binge eat. Of course, to be competitive that means you workout very hard 3-4 times a week.

I can't count the number of times my teammates and I would eat a party pack of tacos each afterwards. That's not healthy.

Re: Why you shouldn't exercise to lose weight

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you do . It's not being a dick. I'm not going to get into the details of how I know this but this is a very important point. So, let's use the example of my girlfriend. We're not in America now but might go there in the future. So, 33% of America is obese [1] and my girlfriend loves food. She knows she's on the heavy side by local standards here, but I don't judge her for it! Judgment doesn't work. Also, in my op…

I'm not arguing with your logic, I'm arguing with your delivery. The psychological mechanisms you're describing are real, and they're a serious problem for people trying to lose weight (among other things), and helping those people defeat them is a good thing. It's that bit at the end, where you seem to imply that there's a conspiracy of fat people out to suppress the truth, that bugs me. I have only ever seen the wo…

Hi! I wrote an 800 word reply and would like to share it with you. Can you list a form of contact? (The thread was marked dead.)
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