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Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

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Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#161

Post by eeeeeeeeeeeee »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #57
guyzero wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like how I get a popup notice on my Samsung TV every few days about they're shutting off various apps like Skype on their smart platform? $35 is about the right amount of money a smart TV enabler.

I really wish TV mfgs still offered dumb TVs, even for like $20 less. The features on the many I've played with (access to a lab with hundreds of smart TVs) range from "unbearable delay changing the volume + UI crashes randomly trying to switch set off" (yes this seriously happens on a newer production Samsung with the little click stick selector on the back as the ONLY physical button; turning it off requires clicki…

I bought my first "smart" tv last year, made by Sony. When it works, it's a great tv but every now and then an app will temporarily lock up and you have to wait 10-15 seconds for the tv to come back to life. Or other times it locks up entirely and I need to manually power cycle it. It's an Android TV.

I do enjoy some of the app integration (hulu, netflix, amazon), but at this point, I'd rather have a stable tv and use a roku instead.

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#162

Post by ithkuil »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #102
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pray tell, security updates for what? My router has all WAN-side management features etc. turned off, WPS is turned off and it has a long random WPA passphrase. Unless someone breaks into my apartment, there just isn't a significant potential for security risks that I'm aware of.

Agreed. I'm way more concerned about my computers and phones being compromised than I am my router. In comparison to the other devices I use the router has a tiny attack surface.

good thing the world is slowly moving to TLS, because your router, with its tiny attack surface, is the prototypical man in the middle

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#163

Post by greggman »

potatolicious wrote: post #71
untog wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious: what do you do with the management app? I have an Apple Airport thing and had a similar experience - years of buying cheap routers then suddenly I had one that "just works". To the point that I haven't had to open/use the administration panel in an absolute age.

The management app is a pretty neat way to set up a router - it certainly beats futzing around with a shitty HTML UI. Other than that I've found it useful for testing WiFi signal strength - in old brick buildings you can get unintuitive dead spots, and the app lets you put your phone somewhere and test signal quality.

Actually I have the opposite experience. I need to use my routers at events for all kinds of situations. If the router uses html I can configure it regardless of os and having to go find an app. I also often use the router without internet (only need lan) which means no internet to download an app

Apps to configure routers are an anti-feature IMO

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#165

Post by victorhooi »

Karunamon wrote: post #125
victorhooi wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point about "doing the right thing" is a complete logical fallacy. Are you implying that group A is somehow more deserving that group B? Don't forget - the "tech giants" you refer to are comprised of people, most of whom have jobs and families This isn't about whims of tech giants - more about whims of the market. If the pitchfork-waving masses on HN screaming about Revolv had all actually, well, bought a Revolv…

I don't think you know what a logical fallacy is. Which one did I commit? Calm down, please. I am not "waving a pitchfork". I didn't own a Reolv, I don't have a horse in this race. However, I do think that there's a valid discussion to be had over the fate of a device that's integrated to the point a "home automation hub" is. The normal expectation is that these devices continue to work for the life of the device, no…

Revolv was sold as a cloud-managed device - the thousand or so people who bought one knew this.

This isn't a unique problem just to Revolv, or home automation.

What happens when any company that provides a SaaS or cloud service goes bust?

Say you host your app on AWS, or DigitalOcean - if the company shuts down, will you claim that it's not "fair" for them to shutdown on you, and they must keep your application running?

Tech companies shut down all the time - sure, it sucks both for the people that work at that company, and for their customers (but I suspect more for the employees - you may have just lost some expensive tech toy - they've potentially lost their livelihoods.)

Let's take a step back, and look objectively at the facts - there was a small hardware startup, that created a cloud-based home automation product.

A few thousand people probably bought it - not enough to keep the company going. They were acqui-hired, all remaining stock destroyed, but the company that acquired the team decided to keep the servers up for a couple more years. After that, they announced they were pulling the plug.

Sure, it sucks - but they bought a cloud-managed product from a new hardware startup. I don't think any of these people were stupid - they knew exactly what they were buying.

If they didn't want to have this risk, then they would have bought from either 1. a larger company that was less likely to go bust or 2. a non-cloud managed product.

However, many of the advantages of the product are probably from it being cloud-managed. I see no issue with buying a cloud-managed device, as long as you know what you're getting into.

And look - let's be honest - home automation - I don't exactly want to be opening up my home network to the world, just so I can access it from my phone. Having a hosted service to do this is pretty cool.

Likewise, I don't have the compute power to do any cool ML at home - but if it was all done on the cloud, and there was a company behind it with the infrastructure and engineering effort, that's a good thing.

I have two Dropcams - they're pretty cool devices. Very easy to setup - but cloud managed. This is tradeoff I knew when I bought them. If the company disappeared, I understand my cameras would fail to work.

I would be upset - but I don't think it would be "unfair". I'd just hope that the people who worked at the company were doing alright.

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#166

Post by greggman »

delroth wrote: post #133
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pray tell, security updates for what? My router has all WAN-side management features etc. turned off, WPS is turned off and it has a long random WPA passphrase. Unless someone breaks into my apartment, there just isn't a significant potential for security risks that I'm aware of.

Unless you also disable execution of Javascript on all the devices that connect to your network (including your phones, set-top boxes, etc.), these devices can be used to attack your router from the LAN. Just use Javascript to autosubmit a form with action=" http://192.168.1.1/exploitable/endpoint/" (you can autodetect the IP, look for Javascript port scanners on Google) and you're in. And before you say that DD-WRT…

How is that any more secure? Are you sure every native app on your phone isn't sending the correct network packets to your router to reconfigure it? Seems like in either case all you need is a password to protect either in a secure enough way. Or isolate the router config on its own vlan

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#167

Post by victorhooi »

SystemOut wrote: post #128
Karunamon wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do you really think it's worth keeping it running indefinitely? At some point, I think it becomes less about "worth" and more about doing the right thing. Is it fair that everyone who bought that device is left holding a worthless chunk of plastic because of the inscrutable whims of various SV tech giants? If not for reams of legalese nobody reads and yet has to agree to in order to even hook the thing up, it would…

Yeah, but normally when companies get bought for small amounts of money it's because they're running out of cash and would probably get shut down anyways. If they were making a profit they'd have been bought for more or they would have raised more cash if their business looked like it might be sustainable.

I agree with you - I have no inside knowledge of this, but all the evidence from the time points to not many Revolv units being shipped - I'd be surprised if there were more than several thousand units sold in total, over the lifespan of the company.

They'd have no chance of ever recouping their investment, or gaining any kind of critical mass.

An acquirhire was probaby a good thing, at that stage - the founders/employees get a new job, and the customer base get an extension on the shutdown, at least for a couple years.

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#168

Post by dingaling »

mikecb wrote: post #134
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, at the risk of sounding hostile, the article notes the following: Eight months later, the OnHub still doesn't support IPv6, and the USB port still can't be used for network storage. Bluetooth, Thread, and Weave support are all still dormant. IFTTT support is great, but shouldn't the priority for a $200 router be in delivering features that were promised from the get-go?

The PM has been very active on various forums talking to users about best ways to implement things like storage. IPv6 is enabled in beta channel (channel switching was accelerated after many users expressed desire for it), and is waiting on upstream stability fixes, which afaik they are submitting directly to the linux kernel. It will roll out when ready, not before. This is what I want from a piece of infrastructure…

> IPv6 is enabled in beta channel ... and is waiting on upstream stability fixes

I'll be interested to see the kernel patches because in my experience the kernel-side of IPv6 has been stable for over a decade, including the past seven years with a native IPv6 Internet connection through Linux routers.

Google itself enabled public IPv6 connectivity in 2009 so I am surprised that a Google-affiliated team is having issues with IPv6.

> This is what I want from a piece of infrastructure.

I want infrastructure to support current networking standards.

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#169

Post by sirtaj »

sethrin wrote: post #96
sirtaj wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one: if you live in a place with unreliable power supply (as I do), it dictates how much backup time you get from your UPS.

To clarify, when the power goes out, you are still able to get online? Otherwise it would seem like it would be somewhat pointless to have the networking equipment plugged into the UPS. I have worked online during a power outage using a cellular internet adapter, but obviously no UPS or router was involved there.

The outages are almost always due to load-shedding, so the POTS network doesn't lose power and our ADSL link remains connected.
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