Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router • Hacker News Board

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#121

Post by nitrogen » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 11:44 PM UTC

victorhooi wrote: post #120

Karunamon wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do you really think it's worth keeping it running indefinitely? At some point, I think it becomes less about "worth" and more about doing the right thing. Is it fair that everyone who bought that device is left holding a worthless chunk of plastic because of the inscrutable whims of various SV tech giants? If not for reams of legalese nobody reads and yet has to agree to in order to even hook the thing up, it would…

Your point about "doing the right thing" is a complete logical fallacy. Are you implying that group A is somehow more deserving that group B? Don't forget - the "tech giants" you refer to are comprised of people, most of whom have jobs and families This isn't about whims of tech giants - more about whims of the market. If the pitchfork-waving masses on HN screaming about Revolv had all actually, well, bought a Revolv…

Charging money for hardware and then remotely disabling it sounds awfully similar to fraud.

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#122

Post by nitrogen » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 11:45 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #116

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the other x number of devices connected to it in your home do. Automatic Security Updates is a contradiction in terms.

The average user is a lot more likely to be a victim of a targeted attack by a hacker than a targeted attack by the state.

Nobody's worried about targeted state attacks, they're worried about dragnet state attacks.

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#123

Post by Karunamon » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 11:47 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #122

Karunamon wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average user is a lot more likely to be a victim of a targeted attack by a hacker than a targeted attack by the state.

Nobody's worried about targeted state attacks, they're worried about dragnet state attacks.

...which don't seem to rely on vulnerabilities introduced via update mechanisms.

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#124

Post by i2shar » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 11:49 PM UTC

knz wrote: post #84

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, at the risk of sounding hostile, the article notes the following: Eight months later, the OnHub still doesn't support IPv6, and the USB port still can't be used for network storage. Bluetooth, Thread, and Weave support are all still dormant. IFTTT support is great, but shouldn't the priority for a $200 router be in delivering features that were promised from the get-go?

Google I/O is in a few weeks - is it possible this is a precursor to something more involving Weave and other IoT systems?

I've been waiting to buy a router for the same reason. Expecting newer versions with support for Weave/Brillo being announced. I had also read somewhere that it has a disabled Zigbee/Z-wave radio - don't know if that's true. But it would be nice to have a "smart hub" integrated into your router.

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#125

Post by Karunamon » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 11:52 PM UTC

victorhooi wrote: post #120

Karunamon wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do you really think it's worth keeping it running indefinitely? At some point, I think it becomes less about "worth" and more about doing the right thing. Is it fair that everyone who bought that device is left holding a worthless chunk of plastic because of the inscrutable whims of various SV tech giants? If not for reams of legalese nobody reads and yet has to agree to in order to even hook the thing up, it would…

Your point about "doing the right thing" is a complete logical fallacy. Are you implying that group A is somehow more deserving that group B? Don't forget - the "tech giants" you refer to are comprised of people, most of whom have jobs and families This isn't about whims of tech giants - more about whims of the market. If the pitchfork-waving masses on HN screaming about Revolv had all actually, well, bought a Revolv…

I don't think you know what a logical fallacy is. Which one did I commit? Calm down, please. I am not "waving a pitchfork". I didn't own a Reolv, I don't have a horse in this race.

However, I do think that there's a valid discussion to be had over the fate of a device that's integrated to the point a "home automation hub" is. The normal expectation is that these devices continue to work for the life of the device, not when some company throws a switch somewhere.

The problem here is that there's no alternative. No graceful degradation. If Ecobee dies tomorrow, I still have a working thermostat.

This? None. Your device is now literally and figuratively worthless, the money you spent on it literally wasted. Were I a purchaser of one of these things, I'd be feeling damn scandalized, ripped off, and rightly so.

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#126

Post by what_ever » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 11:59 PM UTC

sethrin wrote: post #96

sirtaj wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one: if you live in a place with unreliable power supply (as I do), it dictates how much backup time you get from your UPS.

To clarify, when the power goes out, you are still able to get online? Otherwise it would seem like it would be somewhat pointless to have the networking equipment plugged into the UPS. I have worked online during a power outage using a cellular internet adapter, but obviously no UPS or router was involved there.

Power outages can be very local. So yes, you can use internet using UPS backup.

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#127

Post by Nullabillity » Sat, Apr 30, 2016, 12:05 AM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #15

untog wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious: what do you do with the management app? I have an Apple Airport thing and had a similar experience - years of buying cheap routers then suddenly I had one that "just works". To the point that I haven't had to open/use the administration panel in an absolute age.

The app also gives you insights into what's happening with your OnHub -- per device traffic sums, speed tests, alerts, etc. And we're constantly improving it. IMHO that's the real win with the OnHub; the router itself is constantly upgraded with up to date firmware with security updates and new features. And the mobile app that administrates it is constantly getting new features. Maybe I should transfer to marketing.

Aside from the idiotic mandatory app, that's not at all exclusive to OnHub.

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#128

Post by SystemOut » Sat, Apr 30, 2016, 12:05 AM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #115

victorhooi wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That story has already been beaten to death....lol. Nest bought out Revolv - and then immediately ceased all sales. They then kept the servers running for another 18 months, before announcing they were going to shut them down. Revolv was an also-ran in the home automation stakes - speculation on my part, but there was probably a reason they got bought out instead of raking in the big bucks. Let's say they sold a few…

> do you really think it's worth keeping it running indefinitely? At some point, I think it becomes less about "worth" and more about doing the right thing. Is it fair that everyone who bought that device is left holding a worthless chunk of plastic because of the inscrutable whims of various SV tech giants? If not for reams of legalese nobody reads and yet has to agree to in order to even hook the thing up, it would…

Yeah, but normally when companies get bought for small amounts of money it's because they're running out of cash and would probably get shut down anyways. If they were making a profit they'd have been bought for more or they would have raised more cash if their business looked like it might be sustainable.

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#129

Post by mikecb » Sat, Apr 30, 2016, 12:06 AM UTC

umsm wrote: post #32

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The app also gives you insights into what's happening with your OnHub -- per device traffic sums, speed tests, alerts, etc. And we're constantly improving it. IMHO that's the real win with the OnHub; the router itself is constantly upgraded with up to date firmware with security updates and new features. And the mobile app that administrates it is constantly getting new features. Maybe I should transfer to marketing.

I completely agree with untog. Apple's Airport device is so seamless that it's a pleasure to use. What kind of firmware / security updates do you get with OnHub? Aren't firmware updates dangerous if everything is working perfectly (the possibility to introduce issues)?

They issued a security update within 24 hours of the cve, and > 99% of users had it within 48. That's what we need to happen.

Re: Google rolls out “If This Then That” support for its $200 OnHub router

#130

Post by potatolicious » Sat, Apr 30, 2016, 12:15 AM UTC

untog wrote: post #64

seanp2k2 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly Google's rep for discontinuing support for stuff is why I'm not interested in such a connected device. Will it continue getting updates after Google drops it in 0-5 years? Who knows. Will the open-source community be able to put OpenWRT on it or something to give it life after it can no longer receive firmware updates? Not sure. I do know that my current Ubiquiti and Apple network infrastructure devices will…

What reassurance does Apple give that Google do not?

I have an OnHub, but even then I'm a little wary of Google's track record when it comes to "sunsetting" products.

There is no explicit foolproof assurance from either Apple or Google, but in Apple's case they haven't been known for introducing products and then dropping all support for it when it fails to live up to sales/strategic expectations.

In fact Apple's modern track record is pretty impressive - the latest iOS runs on a phone introduced in 2011.

Google's "throw everything at the wall and keep the stuff that sticks" approach is IMO one that only makes sense when you discount brand value completely and assume nobody will remember the stuff that didn't stick, and their unceremonial shutdowns. It's a theoretically appealing approach but IMO impractical because people remember.

Even when Google compensates people for the shutdowns - see the Nexus Q - it still leaves a bad taste, and makes people wonder if they're buying a real honest product in a particular space or an experiment to be cut lose at a moment's notice.