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GNU LibreJS

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Re: GNU LibreJS

#11

Post by Zikes »

jff wrote: post #8
Zikes wrote: post #4

The linked treatise on JavaScript sounds almost satirical to me[1]. > Our tentative policy is to consider a JavaScript program nontrivial if: > it makes an AJAX request or is loaded along with scripts that make an AJAX request, Sometimes I think RMS would be happier if the web had just stopped development after the release of the Mosaic browser. [1] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html

> Sometimes I think RMS would be happier if the web had just stopped development after the release of the Mosaic browser Sometimes I look at modern websites and think I'd be happier too.

There are right and wrong ways to solve the web's many problems. RMS wants to throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

Re: GNU LibreJS

#12

Post by justinlardinois »

Zikes wrote: post #4

The linked treatise on JavaScript sounds almost satirical to me[1]. > Our tentative policy is to consider a JavaScript program nontrivial if: > it makes an AJAX request or is loaded along with scripts that make an AJAX request, Sometimes I think RMS would be happier if the web had just stopped development after the release of the Mosaic browser. [1] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html

I mean, doesn't he wget pages and then run them locally in lynx?

Re: GNU LibreJS

#14

Post by Zikes »

hoodoof wrote: post #10

This is from people who like to turn off JavaScript in a browser, right? Sort of a weird Camelot-esque quest for freedom.

NoScript I can easily understand. It's deciding for yourself what you do and don't want to run on your computer. LibreJS is trying to dictate that to all web developers, and its demands are ridiculous.

Re: GNU LibreJS

#15

Post by s4chin »

striking wrote: post #6
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #2

Apparently it adds a "Complain" tab to your browser when it detects offensive JavaScript: https://www.gnu.org/software/librejs/manual/librejs.html#Com...

That's just what the world needs. More bikeshedding about "offensive JavaScript". Offensive JS includes: "It makes an AJAX request or is loaded along with scripts that make an AJAX request" and "Calling methods with the square bracket notation" and "Using any other construct than a string literal with certain methods (Obj.write, Obj.createElement, …)." If it includes something like the above (which 99% of HTML framew…

I attended an RMS lecture about free software and the GNU movement. To me, RMS just seems to be too paranoid about "non-free" software to the point that it just seems impractical.

He spoke about LibreJS and about why we should complain, but I wasn't really convinced due to the exact same reason you mentioned.

Re: GNU LibreJS

#16

Post by throwanem »

Zikes wrote: post #4

The linked treatise on JavaScript sounds almost satirical to me[1]. > Our tentative policy is to consider a JavaScript program nontrivial if: > it makes an AJAX request or is loaded along with scripts that make an AJAX request, Sometimes I think RMS would be happier if the web had just stopped development after the release of the Mosaic browser. [1] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html

> Sometimes I think RMS would be happier if the web had just stopped development after the release of the Mosaic browser.

Or before. He doesn't really [1] browse the web:

> I generally do not connect to web sites from my own machine, aside from a few sites I have some special relationship with. I usually fetch web pages from other sites by sending mail to a program (see git://git.gnu.org/womb/hacks.git) that fetches them, much like wget, and then mails them back to me. Then I look at them using a web browser, unless it is easy to see the text in the HTML page directly. I usually try lynx first, then a graphical browser if the page needs it (using konqueror, which won't fetch from other sites in such a situation).

[1] https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html

Re: GNU LibreJS

#17

Post by Klathmon »

throwanem wrote: post #16
Zikes wrote: post #4

The linked treatise on JavaScript sounds almost satirical to me[1]. > Our tentative policy is to consider a JavaScript program nontrivial if: > it makes an AJAX request or is loaded along with scripts that make an AJAX request, Sometimes I think RMS would be happier if the web had just stopped development after the release of the Mosaic browser. [1] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html

> Sometimes I think RMS would be happier if the web had just stopped development after the release of the Mosaic browser. Or before. He doesn't really [1] browse the web: > I generally do not connect to web sites from my own machine, aside from a few sites I have some special relationship with. I usually fetch web pages from other sites by sending mail to a program (see git://git.gnu.org/womb/hacks.git) that fetches…

I saw that quote once and i thought it was satire...

Re: GNU LibreJS

#18

Post by Zikes »

throwanem wrote: post #16
Zikes wrote: post #4

The linked treatise on JavaScript sounds almost satirical to me[1]. > Our tentative policy is to consider a JavaScript program nontrivial if: > it makes an AJAX request or is loaded along with scripts that make an AJAX request, Sometimes I think RMS would be happier if the web had just stopped development after the release of the Mosaic browser. [1] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html

> Sometimes I think RMS would be happier if the web had just stopped development after the release of the Mosaic browser. Or before. He doesn't really [1] browse the web: > I generally do not connect to web sites from my own machine, aside from a few sites I have some special relationship with. I usually fetch web pages from other sites by sending mail to a program (see git://git.gnu.org/womb/hacks.git) that fetches…

Email makes a network request, just like AJAX, which makes it "non-trivial" by his definition.

Re: GNU LibreJS

#19

Post by lazaroclapp »

Zikes wrote: post #4

The linked treatise on JavaScript sounds almost satirical to me[1]. > Our tentative policy is to consider a JavaScript program nontrivial if: > it makes an AJAX request or is loaded along with scripts that make an AJAX request, Sometimes I think RMS would be happier if the web had just stopped development after the release of the Mosaic browser. [1] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html

I don't think the point is that RMS is against complex Javascript apps at all. His point is:

a) If it makes an AJAX request, it likely is a piece of software (a web app) more than it is a webpage.

b) If it is software, then he (and the people using this) care about it being free software.

I use and have made proprietary web apps, yet I wouldn't disagree with RMS on the argument that such apps leave less control to the user than free software on their own devices does. It seems like objective reality. Given the practicalities, I don't consider it a deal-breaker in all cases - I give up some control in exchange for other things - but I can understand people who do. This is the "Certified Vegan" for the web. People are free to change their consumption habits for moral reasons and that includes web apps, this remains true even if you think their particular fight has no merit or is not worth fighting.

Re: GNU LibreJS

#20

Post by SEJeff »

Zikes wrote: post #4

The linked treatise on JavaScript sounds almost satirical to me[1]. > Our tentative policy is to consider a JavaScript program nontrivial if: > it makes an AJAX request or is loaded along with scripts that make an AJAX request, Sometimes I think RMS would be happier if the web had just stopped development after the release of the Mosaic browser. [1] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html

Actually, he would likely want everyone to be an absolute masochist like him and have websites converted to emails:

https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html

""" I generally do not connect to web sites from my own machine, aside from a few sites I have some special relationship with. I usually fetch web pages from other sites by sending mail to a program (see git://git.gnu.org/womb/hacks.git) that fetches them, much like wget, and then mails them back to me. Then I look at them using a web browser, unless it is easy to see the text in the HTML page directly. I usually try lynx first, then a graphical browser if the page needs it (using konqueror, which won't fetch from other sites in such a situation). """

I for one am glad we aren't back in 1980 on serial connections.

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