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How the “what’s your current salary?” question hurts the gender pay gap

washingtonpost.com

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Re: How the “what’s your current salary?” question hurts the gender pay gap

#61

Post by whatok »

serge2k wrote: post #14
patrickmay wrote: post #2

> Cornell professors Francine Blau and Lawrence Kahn found that women were paid 79 cents for each dollar a man was paid. Even after adjusting for type of job, industry, experience, location and education, the gap remained 92 cents for each dollar. This is not supported by the evidence. See, for example, this article by Christina Hoff Sommers ( http://time.com/3222543/5-feminist-myths-that-will-not-die/ ): "No matter…

They mention that explicity > after adjusting for type of job, industry, experience, location and education, the gap remained 92 cents for each dollar. 8% is still a lot. I'd like for companies to just show the data.

> I'd like for companies to just show the data.

Agreed. If anyone in government was serious about this, they would lobby the SEC to require publicly listed companies to disclose this information on a granular enough level that comparisons inside and outside of industry were possible.

Re: How the “what’s your current salary?” question hurts the gender pay gap

#62

Post by russelluresti »

> When it comes to making pay decisions, we anchor too much on someone’s current salary instead of what the job is worth. Imagine hiring two accountants. One (call her Eliza) currently makes $50,000 and the other (Alexander) makes $58,000. And let’s say the average accountant in your company makes $60,000. It feels natural to offer Alexander a salary of $60,000, just like everyone else gets. But for most managers, it feels wrong to give Eliza the same salary. After all, that’s a $10,000 raise! Wouldn’t that be unfair to Alexander, who only got a $2,000 raise? And why not save a few bucks by paying people based on their past salaries?

What? No. Who thinks this way? The role at your company has a $60k salary. People you hire for that role get $60k, no matter how much they were being paid in the past.

Is this really a difficult concept for people?

Re: How the “what’s your current salary?” question hurts the gender pay gap

#63

Post by agilebyte »

disease wrote: post #42
throwthis wrote: post #22

As an aside, isn't that question inherently just flat out wrong? Q: 'What's your current salary?' A: 'Why does it matter? What am I worth to you?'

I'm currently in an underpayed development position and am trying to get to market rate, yet every recruiter and HR person asks this question. Anyone have any idea what would happen if I just refused to answer it and use the 'I'm looking to be paid what I'm worth to the company' line?

Ask a friend to pay you $1 for contract work that takes you half a minute. Draft a contract if you have to. There, now you are "allowed" to say you've been paid $120/hour.

Re: How the “what’s your current salary?” question hurts the gender pay gap

#64

Post by brbsix »

electrograv wrote: post #54
chrisfosterelli wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to argue that this accounts for it entirely, but I do think it's worth pointing out that women typically are less interested in higher ranked positions than men tend to be [0]. They are less likely to be promoted because they are less likely to want a promotion. [0] http://www.pnas.org/content/112/40/12354.abstract

> They [women] are less likely to be promoted because they are less likely to want a promotion. I don't think anyone could ask for a better example of systemic entrenched sexist bias than this quote. "It's okay, don't worry about it; they just don't want to be promoted as much as us men." This is not that much different from the old "women enjoy being in their husband's kitchen and tending to the house, so it's okay…

It it really 'systemic entrenched sexist bias' if it's true, to the best of our available knowledge?

Re: How the “what’s your current salary?” question hurts the gender pay gap

#65

Post by whatok »

nwah1 wrote: post #59
electrograv wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They [women] are less likely to be promoted because they are less likely to want a promotion. I don't think anyone could ask for a better example of systemic entrenched sexist bias than this quote. "It's okay, don't worry about it; they just don't want to be promoted as much as us men." This is not that much different from the old "women enjoy being in their husband's kitchen and tending to the house, so it's okay…

Hmm more like "those awful males are so competitive in pursuing career advancement. Maybe testosterone has some sort of effect."

I'd argue it more stems from childhood with the way boys are encouraged to approach situations and how that differs from the treatment girls receive. Boys are encouraged to be more aggressive while girls are supposed to be timid. When it's that deeply ingrained in society, you do not fix the problem through posting infographics on the White House website.

Re: How the “what’s your current salary?” question hurts the gender pay gap

#66

Post by phamilton »

disease wrote: post #42
throwthis wrote: post #22

As an aside, isn't that question inherently just flat out wrong? Q: 'What's your current salary?' A: 'Why does it matter? What am I worth to you?'

I'm currently in an underpayed development position and am trying to get to market rate, yet every recruiter and HR person asks this question. Anyone have any idea what would happen if I just refused to answer it and use the 'I'm looking to be paid what I'm worth to the company' line?

I've refused and gotten away with it.

Re: How the “what’s your current salary?” question hurts the gender pay gap

#67

Post by technocodes »

angelbob wrote: post #28
technocodes wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's like saying most investment bankers are male and make 500k a year, most nurses are female and make 70k a year, Injustice! Look at that pay gap! Outrageous! - It makes zero sense. EDIT: What I meant to say is men go into different careers than woman and for different reasons. Usually men go after higher paying jobs (investment banking). When people compute the pay gap they dont take this into account, so they…

It is outrageous if a similarly-qualified woman would have a lot more trouble getting the $500k investment banker job. In that case, society is getting lower-quality investment bankers despite spending $500k/year on them.

Which is illogical. I will tell you my company would love to hire someone at a 30% discount.

Re: How the “what’s your current salary?” question hurts the gender pay gap

#68

Post by technocodes »

eli wrote: post #26
technocodes wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's like saying most investment bankers are male and make 500k a year, most nurses are female and make 70k a year, Injustice! Look at that pay gap! Outrageous! - It makes zero sense. EDIT: What I meant to say is men go into different careers than woman and for different reasons. Usually men go after higher paying jobs (investment banking). When people compute the pay gap they dont take this into account, so they…

Is there something about the male gender that makes one a better investment banker? If not, how do you explain why that is in the first place?

Women flat out don't want to do it. Some do, but not many.

Re: How the “what’s your current salary?” question hurts the gender pay gap

#69

Post by bobwaycott »

patrickmay wrote: post #2

> Cornell professors Francine Blau and Lawrence Kahn found that women were paid 79 cents for each dollar a man was paid. Even after adjusting for type of job, industry, experience, location and education, the gap remained 92 cents for each dollar. This is not supported by the evidence. See, for example, this article by Christina Hoff Sommers ( http://time.com/3222543/5-feminist-myths-that-will-not-die/ ): "No matter…

And by "the evidence", you mean none of the evidence that demonstrably shows a pay gap, right?

Re: How the “what’s your current salary?” question hurts the gender pay gap

#70

Post by chrisfosterelli »

electrograv wrote: post #54
chrisfosterelli wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to argue that this accounts for it entirely, but I do think it's worth pointing out that women typically are less interested in higher ranked positions than men tend to be [0]. They are less likely to be promoted because they are less likely to want a promotion. [0] http://www.pnas.org/content/112/40/12354.abstract

> They [women] are less likely to be promoted because they are less likely to want a promotion. I don't think anyone could ask for a better example of systemic entrenched sexist bias than this quote. "It's okay, don't worry about it; they just don't want to be promoted as much as us men." This is not that much different from the old "women enjoy being in their husband's kitchen and tending to the house, so it's okay…

> systemic entrenched sexist bias

Did you read the source? I was not being sexist, I was stating a factual finding from a peer-reviewed journal... I believe you misinterpreted my statement.

> Evidence clearly exists that lot of women used to enjoy being in the kitchen, but that doesn't mean women are less suited to work outside the kitchen -- to make an extreme example.

Yes, and this is my point! If you read the article I sourced, it said that women found "high-level positions as equally attainable as men do, but less desirable". Evidence clearly exists that a lot of women want to prioritize non-work related factors in their life, which is why you see less women in higher-level positions currently, but that doesn't mean women are less suited to high-level positions.

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