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Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

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Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incentive to hoard, also often called the "deflationary spiral", is a theory proposed by neo-Keynesian economists, which doesn't appear to be as bad as they say. People have finite lifespan, and so, they want to use their hoards to better these finite lives, which leads them to spend. This preference, known as the "time preference", strikes a balance with the tendency to hoard. It is impossible to predict where t…

> Why do you buy cell phones or laptops today, knowing that future ones will be better or cheaper? Direct practical utility. > Why buy some food today, when you know your purchasing power will be greater next month? I don't eat, i starve, i die. > Why pay for housing when prices are falling, knowing your contract will be cheaper in five years? Now there you get into something interesting. Though the five years view i…

You just demonstrated the concept to which I'm alluding. There is a balance of time preference versus saving preference for absolutely everything in an economy based on the subjective desires of all participants. For some people, this will be cell phones, or cars, or fancy shoes, or little purse dogs. They won't save forever, living just to get by, for some uncertain future when they can have more stuff. There is no deflationary spiral, there's a balance point where it stops.

This dangerous idea has been used to justify all forms of crazy economic intervention since Keynes formalized it. The notion of a currency having to depreciate is a direct consequence of these policies, all based on a fallacy. No matter how counterproductive these policies are, they're still applied. Look to Japan and Switzerland as recent examples. Japan has massive stimulus, the Yen is dropping, are people spending more, no, they're saving for the future, knowing that their savings will be worth less, so they need more of them to get by - no spending on unnecessary items. Switzerland is paying negative interest rates on savings accounts, so people have to save more to offset that.

There are lots of things to dislike about Bitcoin, but its value increasing over time isn't one.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you buy cell phones or laptops today, knowing that future ones will be better or cheaper? Direct practical utility. > Why buy some food today, when you know your purchasing power will be greater next month? I don't eat, i starve, i die. > Why pay for housing when prices are falling, knowing your contract will be cheaper in five years? Now there you get into something interesting. Though the five years view i…

You just demonstrated the concept to which I'm alluding. There is a balance of time preference versus saving preference for absolutely everything in an economy based on the subjective desires of all participants. For some people, this will be cell phones, or cars, or fancy shoes, or little purse dogs. They won't save forever, living just to get by, for some uncertain future when they can have more stuff. There is no…

What you are doing is conflating a commodity with a currency.

Anyways, why the Japanese is saving is that even 2 decades later they have a private debt overhang from the 80s boom.

Expect Europe and North America to follow much the same pattern (already a decade in shortly).

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without having to worry about confirmation times Card payments take far longer to process than bitcoin payments > exchange rates Just as much as with bitcoin. > getting scammed Why?

> Card payments take far longer to process than bitcoin payments I can't remember the last time I stood in line at the supermarket for an hour because VISA was clogged with "dust" transactions. Hmm.

I remember the last time I used VISA and was charged a fee higher than something that would beat the dust transactions.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#355

I find the vitriol towards Bitcoin kind of odd. If I posted an article about Linux 4.1 or something, I wouldn't expect to see comments saying 'meanwhile, I used Windows yesterday, and played GTA5, and it was good'. What gives? Are there forums in which people have this sort of reaction to, I dunno, HTML5? From some of the posts here you would think that it's IED control software.

I'll offer a controversial explanation: bitcoin enthusiasts have exhausted most of the oxygen in the room with regard to rational bitcoin discussion. The never-ending adulation of bitcoin as the greatest invention since the internet, the hyperbolic claims that bitcoin will do things like revolutionize payments, end global war, eliminate the need for banks, liberate the people from bondage, the litany of bitcoin and b…

Funny how the anti Bitcoin crowd respond with baseless ad hominem attacks.

Bitcoin solved a problem, whether that problem needed solving or will be extremely fruitful is for the future to determine.

The fact that a 4+ billion dollar stateless currency exists is pretty amazing to me.

Personally I think the anti Bitcoin crowd is also the pro government crowd. You know, the people who support torture of innocents, assassinations, genocide, etc etc, but I'm sure I'm just some nut -- yeah I'm the nut, not the people who talk about laws And justice while shrugging off torure.

Amazingly gross display of hypocracy.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean illegal transactions.

Like getting your money out of Venezuela, Argentina, Cypress or Greece before its gone or you can't get to it? Those are all illegal. Legality and morality are not the same thing and not all of world lives in cozy security.

How would converting all your money into magic beans help in that situation? How would you pay for your groceries in magic beans in that country?

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll offer a controversial explanation: bitcoin enthusiasts have exhausted most of the oxygen in the room with regard to rational bitcoin discussion. The never-ending adulation of bitcoin as the greatest invention since the internet, the hyperbolic claims that bitcoin will do things like revolutionize payments, end global war, eliminate the need for banks, liberate the people from bondage, the litany of bitcoin and b…

You get this because the properties of bitcoin attracts two kinds of people. Goldbugs, because of how bitcoin is "mined" and is inherently deflationary. And gold is the one true currency, m'kay. Cypherpunks, because it is built around cryptographics. And cryptographics makes anything double plus good. Never mind that both kinds have a strong anti-establishment streak. That said, if they could get away form their anti…

> find some way to speed up the ledger processing

If you want a large, fast, distributed ledger, go ahead and make one. If you want to anchor it in Bitcoin, go ahead. Why would bitcoin itself change heavily just to suit your proposed need?

It's a misconception that bitcoin the software, or the community as developers, are incapable of switching to larger and faster blocks. The system is working well, as designed.

> the one true currency

The only one here saying that, is you. Bitcoin doesn't have to be the one, or all things to everyone.

> if they could get away form their anti-inflation fanaticism

That's like going to a foreign film society and complaining that they're fanatical about foreign films. It says so on the door and you aren't forced to stay. There are inflationary crypto-currencies...

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And in the end, all currencies are tokens of account. Meaning that they exist in the end to make sure nobody double spends. But to be effective in doing so, the token material must the worth less then the face value. If not, people will have an incentive to hoard. And that will drive an economy into the ground. Lots of goods tend to increase in value over time. Land, gold, stocks, etc. How is bitcoin any different?…

Hoarding is a bad thing when we are talking about a currency. The main function of a currency is exchange, not storage. Without a currency you are back at the barter stage, or move to IOUs (that may ironically turn into currency if allows to pass from person to person).

Hoarding has a price - the marginal utility of each remaining token of value increases, so it becomes much more expensive to hoard. Some amount always circulates.

Hoarding in a mattress represents a lost opportunity cost. Most hoarders put their money into something that yields interest, that gets it circulating, and it is in fact, how our entire banking system works.

Also, let's call hoarding something else, namely "saving". In a healthy economy, you need saving and spending. Saving is a way of deferring spending to the future. When lots of people save, it means it's a good time to borrow money because it's cheap due to the nature of the banking system and lending and because it means that people have money to spend on whatever you're producing with the credit. You really can't have spending without saving and vice versa, otherwise you risk some kind of credit crunch or collapse of the currency. (The USD is in a scary place, BTW).

If you're trying to argue against Bitcoin as a currency because it's used as a store of value, then you have to be against the USD or Euro too. The ratio of saving to spending is different among these, and in Bitcoin-land the ratio is particularly skewed to saving due to the early adopter advantage, but there's still a healthy amount of churn for a currency that's so young, despite profound technical encumberance to its usability.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Card payments take far longer to process than bitcoin payments I can't remember the last time I stood in line at the supermarket for an hour because VISA was clogged with "dust" transactions. Hmm.

I remember the last time I used VISA and was charged a fee higher than something that would beat the dust transactions.

[deleted]

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#360
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To point 1. Most who don't understand bitcoin think the federal Reserve is a government agency. But these same people got (and still are) angry at the banks for their part in the great recession. If they really understood what happened in 1913 with the creation of the fed their heads would spin. Those that understand the big picture and the threat central banks pose to a nations sovereignty, and the debt slavery of i…

This is why many bitcoin proponents comes across as naive, broad political statements bordering on false beliefs come across as juvenile and in many cases fanatic. Stay with the facts and reality, a.k.a. the technology, statements like the above create a toxic environment in which the bitcoin community currently finds itself deeply mired in.

How false is it criticize central bank policy?

They are dragging the world into another great depression, destroying the lives of billions along the way.

At some point it gets tiresome to speak with those who have no understanding of economics nor history.

Can you defend the last 8 years of Central Bank policy, are you even schooled in this area of study? Your criticisms are naïve.

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