Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases • Hacker News Board

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#201

Post by mbrock » Thu, Apr 28, 2016, 3:21 PM UTC

ChemicalWarfare wrote: post #197

mbrock wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One major reason why Bitcoin is used in the West is that it enables integrity and privacy when making online purchases, as opposed to bank-issued cards. I've used BTC in an emergency situation, to transfer money when I would otherwise have needed to wait for several days for an international bank transfer (and then would also have hit my bank's foreign ATM withdrawal limit). Your third paragraph is a veiled insult ba…

Not hating on Bitcoin, but just to set the record straight - unless you're going through some extra hoops like mixers etc - the level of privacy you get with Bitcoin is less than what you get with a CC payment.

If you buy BTC with cash and have it sent to a fresh wallet, that's quite some privacy—but yes, it's important to be aware of this stuff.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#202

Post by ryanlol » Thu, Apr 28, 2016, 3:22 PM UTC

aliakhtar wrote: post #72

In other news, I live in Pakistan, and I used a debit card to buy a steam game 3 days ago and it worked instantly + frictionlessly, without having to worry about confirmation times + exchange rates + getting scammed + getting on a government list.

> without having to worry about confirmation times

Card payments take far longer to process than bitcoin payments

> exchange rates

Just as much as with bitcoin.

> getting scammed

Why?

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#203

Post by ChemicalWarfare » Thu, Apr 28, 2016, 3:23 PM UTC

Cool. This type of market is perfect for Bitcoin:

1. worldwide - which gives them large customer base without access to other methods of payments (unlike US where it's really hard to convince customers to use BTC instead of Credit Cards);

2. Digital goods with licenses that can be revoked - so the merchant doesn't have to worry (too much) about confirmations/double spends and is able to "ship the goods" instantly. They obv have to factor the potential case of tx not going through into their flow to catch these but it can be done without impacting their users whose txs do get confirmed.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#204

Post by csense » Thu, Apr 28, 2016, 3:24 PM UTC

Grue3 wrote: post #20

StavrosK wrote: post #12

I was really surprised that the announcement that Steam may support Bitcoin made waves a while ago, yet the announcement that it actually does did not. I used it to buy a (horrible) game last night, and it worked beautifully. Contrast with PayPal, with which Steam is always confused about where I am and whether it should charge me in GBP or EUR. I'm never not using Bitcoin again.

What about refunds? With Paypal you know you're getting the same amount back, in the same currency, as if you haven't bought anything at all. Given the fluctuating nature of Bitcoin, surely that's not possible?

See here: https://help.bitpay.com/15596-payments-refunds/how-do-i-refu...

It seems that BitPay (the payment provider used Steam and many other merchants who accept Bitcoins) gets a dollar valued refund amount from the merchant (so you can do partial refunds). Then they calculate the Bitcoin value of the refund amount at the current exchange rate and send that much bitcoin back to the user. There's an extra Bitcoin transaction fee involved. I'm sure BitPay keeps a few thousand dollars worth of Bitcoin on hand to pay refunds, and I'm sure refunds are rare enough that any frictional costs are much smaller than what they bring in through their own fees.

So basically the user is taking on the exchange rate risk -- if you buy a game, Bitcoins go up 20% overnight and then you request a refund, your refund amount will be less Bitcoins than you originally paid. If they did it any other way then it would be subject to abuses that would allow users and merchants to collude to extract money from BitPay (BitPay would essentially be writing options which would allow users to buy back bitcoins that were sold on their behalf in the past at the same price they were sold, even if that's substantially different from the current market price).

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#205

Post by stegosaurus » Thu, Apr 28, 2016, 3:24 PM UTC

csense wrote: post #194

jerf wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I'd suggest you do sometimes see people saying that about Linux, especially when Linux "on the desktop" comes up. And the reason is that neither project is simply a neutral software development project, but are politically charged. Linux at this point really just has a political "tinge" to it with the free software stuff, but Bitcoin is drenched in politics. So people are responding with their political bra…

Maybe the year of the Linux desktop will also be the year of rational political discourse...

That'll be the year of the GNU/Linux desktop, then? ;)

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#206

Post by snitko » Thu, Apr 28, 2016, 3:29 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #80

Cyph0n wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but you're looking at Bitcoin from a narrow viewpoint. There are in fact people who actually need Bitcoin in their day-to-day. My home country Tunisia for example has very strict currency controls in place, which means that it is impossible to purchase any goods from outside the country or even transfer money overseas. The government now provides rechargeable card with a 1000 TND (~500 USD) limit that can…

> I'm sorry, but you're looking at Bitcoin from a narrow viewpoint. There are in fact people who actually need Bitcoin in their day-to-day. Well, perhaps, but (a) these people are a very small amount compared to "first world" bitcoin champions (b) they would be better off pushing for actual policy change regarding their problems, instead of using a technological workaround who (depending on the whims of those in powe…

Actually, (b) is exactly the opposite. Instead of voting for certain economic policies and hoping "my guy wins" I can just use Bitcoin, which has the qualities I need, here and now: for instance, I can send money to anyone in the world without any of the KYC and AML bullshit and I don't need to wait and vote in just the right politician who promises(!) to easy the said regulations.

I can certifiably tell you that I AM better off because I started using bitcoin. And it's not because of the exchange rate, but because of the freedom to do what I please with my money.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#207

Post by ZenoArrow » Thu, Apr 28, 2016, 3:31 PM UTC

ssharp wrote: post #160

ZenoArrow wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I'm not sure what Bitcoin equivalent of "leaving cash on the street" you're inferring. It might be helpful if you elaborated on that." Bitcoins are a form of digital cash. You store Bitcoins in a wallet. If you lose your Bitcoin wallet you lose your bitcoins. In a similar sense, if you lose your wallet containing notes/coins, you lose your notes/coins. The security risk is the same.

The security risk is not remotely the same because in order to do anything other that store your Bitcoins (e.g. spend, transfer), you have to expose your money online. My dollar bills are never out there on the internet, so my only risk of loss is physical loss or physical theft. Because of this, it's better to compare Bitcoin to other forms of "digital/virtual representations of currency", like debit cards and credi…

You have the option to use a physical bitcoin wallet, you don't need to have your bitcoins constantly exposed to hackers over the internet.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#208

Post by rglullis » Thu, Apr 28, 2016, 3:31 PM UTC

nekopa wrote: post #195

rglullis wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow it seems you are offended. Why? You may even use Visa, still doesn't mean that you are dealing with US dollars. Why do you think is it completely normal to have Visa as being a global country dealing with the cross-country transactions, but not Bitpay? If you have access to the international banking system, great. It is not a bad thing. Just like it is not a bad thing to have bitcoin as an alternative . The o…

I saw this a little differently. Not so much that bit coin is useless. He seemed to argue against using his country as an argument. You framed it as "I can pay with Visa..." I think you may have projected your argument onto his statement with no real correlation.

"argue against using his country as an argument"

First, it's not the country that is being used as an argument. So the point is moot.

Second, this is not about "Developed/Underdeveloped Countries". That would be incredibly backwards. It was to show that not everywhere has unrestricted access to international trade, and that cryptocurrencies can help with that.

Just as an example: despite the crisis, Greece is a developed country, yet (because of the crisis) they are also applying very strict capital controls.

So, despite being "able to pay with Visa in his/her country", a Greek could also benefit from something like Bitpay.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#209

Post by andypants » Thu, Apr 28, 2016, 3:35 PM UTC

cloudjacker wrote: post #186

dmihal wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that Bitcoin/Blockchain technology really is a groundbreaking invention from a computer science perspective. Bitcoin may or may not succeed, but something can't be un-invented. Furthermore, it's interesting to see companies like Steam, and even Wall Street players, embracing this new technology.

> Bitcoin may or may not succeed Thats what people were saying in 2012, 2013 The network is working fine. This is success. What is your metric of success in this statement? I find it counterintuitive.

They are waiting for bitcoin to become the number #1 currency. Just like people joke about 'the year of linux'. Guess what, linux is still around. It doesn't need to be #1. There may never be a 'year of linux', but it doesn't mean linux is a failure.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#210

Post by stegosaurus » Thu, Apr 28, 2016, 3:35 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #151

stegosaurus wrote: post #141

I find the vitriol towards Bitcoin kind of odd. If I posted an article about Linux 4.1 or something, I wouldn't expect to see comments saying 'meanwhile, I used Windows yesterday, and played GTA5, and it was good'. What gives? Are there forums in which people have this sort of reaction to, I dunno, HTML5? From some of the posts here you would think that it's IED control software.

I have no stake or interest in Bitcoin, and I wrote it off some years ago. I find it kind of annoying when there are stories about it or altcoins in my news feed (in lieu of other things). It's noise in my signal. This is just my own personal feeling; I wouldn't go as far as to describe my feeling towards Bitcoin as hate. I can't explain the feelings or motivations of those who actively detract from the technology. I…

I find Apple 'hate' far more understandable because of their market share.

Bitcoin makes up a tiny portion of the market and is completely optional. I mean, it barely even exists.

Apple's activities (notably 'tivoization'), threaten general purpose computing.

Regardless I still try to come to peace with it (i think it's very important to have a positive mindset). As long as I can still buy my ARM SoC boards, x86 machines, etc, I'll be happy. If that starts looking dim, eh. We'll see.