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Being a Developer After 40

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Re: Being a Developer After 40

#571

Post by empthought »

kelukelugames wrote: post #565
empthought wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like you're not familiar with the history, yourself. First and second wave feminism weren't coopted by upper middle class white women, they were founded by upper middle class white women. You can't get more white middle class than Anthony, Friedan, de Beauvoir et al. Not that Wikipedia is a particularly good source, but your own link includes the sentence "Feminism at its core is a movement to abolish the inequ…

I'm confused. Am I being trolled? You are using words that I agree with but you sound like you want an argument. Of course poor white men benefit from the racist patriarchy, but HN gets upset if you say that bluntly. You seem to disagree that feminism needs to be intersectional? That's fine. A lot of people participate in white feminism, but many feminist leaders believe capitalism, racism, and sexism have to be tack…

You claimed (or insinuated, anyway) that the fact that feminism is more concerned with the Obama daughters than with an anonymous poor white man is a criticism of feminism.

I claim that is not a valid criticism because speaking for poor white men is not a concern of feminism except where it is obvious that patriarchy is the source of their problems.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#572

Post by Can_Not »

WalterSear wrote: post #479
pc86 wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of SV and NYC, $150k is more than enough for a single-income family of four to have a solidly upper-middle class lifestyle.

Not, really, if saving for retirement is factored in. Most people aren't saving at all, which is how they manage to maintain that upper middle class lifestyle on what has becoming the equivalent of a formerly lower middle class salary.

How can you not save for retirement with 150k outside of those places? Are you assuming everyone is getting a Lamborghini or something?

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#573

Post by kelukelugames »

empthought wrote: post #571
kelukelugames wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. Am I being trolled? You are using words that I agree with but you sound like you want an argument. Of course poor white men benefit from the racist patriarchy, but HN gets upset if you say that bluntly. You seem to disagree that feminism needs to be intersectional? That's fine. A lot of people participate in white feminism, but many feminist leaders believe capitalism, racism, and sexism have to be tack…

You claimed (or insinuated, anyway) that the fact that feminism is more concerned with the Obama daughters than with an anonymous poor white man is a criticism of feminism. I claim that is not a valid criticism because speaking for poor white men is not a concern of feminism except where it is obvious that patriarchy is the source of their problems.

Okay got it, you think I'm derailing.

Poor white men example was trying to connect to HNers who think privilege is a myth. Privileged tech workers are more likely to acknowledge class advantages. So I hope they could eventually make the leap to gender and race.

The criticism of mainstream feminism is that they don't do enough for working class women or women of color. Which is probably not a concept that HN is ready for.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#574

Post by JohnBooty »

maratd wrote: post #466
JohnBooty wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that prejudice will amplify if you continue treating people of color differently. Recognizing unjust treatment and inequality is not "treating people differently." Equality is the goal; recognizing inequality is part of how we get there.

> Equality is the goal That's your goal. I don't share it. I want equal opportunity , not equal outcome. We will never have equal outcome because we're all different and that's a good thing . And I don't care if you're disadvantaged because of a thousand different reasons. None of us are born equal. We have no control over that. What we can do is make sure that the bar is the same for everyone. That's the only equali…

> I want equal opportunity, not equal outcome

I should have been more specific, but if it makes you feel any better: I did mean "equal opportunity" and not "equal outcome."

Why did you write something so vitriolic based on an ambiguity? But ultimately, yes, my fault for being ambiguous.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#575

Post by JohnBooty »

mc32 wrote: post #539
JohnBooty wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you can have privilege without oppression of some sort, whether it's an extreme level of oppression like legalized slavery in America, or a more subdued kind like the economic inequality we have in America today. Never the less, even in Sunni areas, I dont think it would be helpful to describe the issue suffered by say Shias as Sunni privilege. I'd tentatively agree. The value, if any, of "_____ privile…

Consider the urban/rural dichotomy that exists in many places. In such places, even in very homogenous places, you will find a pronounced "privilege". An Osakan in Tokyo, East Londoner in London proper, a farmboy from Högsby vs someone in Stockholm. A mestizo from the country side vs a mestizo MDFer. It's more than race or religious and it's something beside "oppression". Alike people tend to help people like themsel…

I agree with you. Unequal opportunity is morally and practically bad. We do not want to prevent the next Einstein or Newton from becoming the next Einstein or Newton because of their gender, birthplace, or anything else.

Again, though: I don't feel that addressing one particular facet of inequality is bad for the struggle against inequality as a whole any more than focusing on colon cancer is some kind of insult to say, breast cancer survivors.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#576

Post by turar »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #570
flexie wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was the nature of business to sell at higher prices than you buy. Feel free to moralise but try to live up to it yourself: Don't buy anything produced in parts of the world where people make less than you. Buying employees or services or products are the same, you know. With virtually zero percent unemployment for developers in Sofia, need for programmers everywhere in Europe, no visa-requirement prevent…

The thing is that I don't have much choice when it comes to, say, electronics or the clothes I wear and so on, but I'm not the person who employs the people who make those things directly and I don't profit from their work. In fact, if you think of it this way, if I pay £15 for a cardigan made in Bangladesh by a woman who gets paid £5 a week for her work, I'm getting ripped off also. Why am I not paying pennies for i…

You can always go the extra effort to locate the factory workers who make your clothes and start sending them money directly. You have that choice too.

But back to your original point, do you believe that a shirt made in England that you would pay twice the amount of money for, would be 2 times higher quality than a shirt made in Bangladesh?

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#577

Post by empthought »

kelukelugames wrote: post #573
empthought wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You claimed (or insinuated, anyway) that the fact that feminism is more concerned with the Obama daughters than with an anonymous poor white man is a criticism of feminism. I claim that is not a valid criticism because speaking for poor white men is not a concern of feminism except where it is obvious that patriarchy is the source of their problems.

Okay got it, you think I'm derailing. Poor white men example was trying to connect to HNers who think privilege is a myth. Privileged tech workers are more likely to acknowledge class advantages. So I hope they could eventually make the leap to gender and race. The criticism of mainstream feminism is that they don't do enough for working class women or women of color. Which is probably not a concept that HN is ready…

All right, everything turned out better than expected, then. :)

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#578

Post by [deleted] »

Can_Not wrote: post #572
WalterSear wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not, really, if saving for retirement is factored in. Most people aren't saving at all, which is how they manage to maintain that upper middle class lifestyle on what has becoming the equivalent of a formerly lower middle class salary.

How can you not save for retirement with 150k outside of those places? Are you assuming everyone is getting a Lamborghini or something?

[deleted]

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#579

Post by WalterSear »

Can_Not wrote: post #572
WalterSear wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not, really, if saving for retirement is factored in. Most people aren't saving at all, which is how they manage to maintain that upper middle class lifestyle on what has becoming the equivalent of a formerly lower middle class salary.

How can you not save for retirement with 150k outside of those places? Are you assuming everyone is getting a Lamborghini or something?

I'm not assuming anything, except that you don't know the costs involved in supporting 4 people, while raising and paying for the education of two children, and while putting together the few millions of dollars it takes to live, pay for medical bills and assisted living for a decade or three after you can no longer work.
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