Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

bloombergview.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–159 of 159 posts

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#151

Post by nihonde »

kafkaesque wrote: post #144
nihonde wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I've made a lot of money in America and been afforded all of the privileges, but every North American city I've ever lived in had a miserable, destitute area and plenty of visibly neglected people, not to mention the background noise of violent crime and sleazy people who will take any advantage they can get. I wish it wasn't true, but it simply is. I've lived on the west coast, east coast, south and Canada. We…

I'm ready to take all the downvotes. You have lived a very privileged life in Japan, my friend. I have travelled to Japan and have a fiancee who is Zainichi North Korean. I urge you to stop interpreting Japanese culture with such extreme rose-coloured glasses and tone down your extreme positivity because it is blinding you from having the "balanced view" you say you have of Japan. Furthermore, it is insulting to mino…

1. There are less than 10K homeless in a nation of 150MM+.

2. This is a sexist culture, to be sure. Women wield a lot of power in the home, but endure a lot of nonsense from insecure men. It's an abstraction for me, though. I'm surrounded by strong women, and men who respect them. I'm sympathetic, but it doesn't have any impact on my daily life.

3. As for racism, this is a monoculture. Koreans are both revered and despised by different people here because they're different. The same is true for Chinese, Africans, Americans, Russians, etc. If I felt unwelcome here, I would not like this place, and I would leave it.

Let's be clear: I don't think everyone deserves to have everything that they want. I admit that I am in a privileged position relative to others, and the opposite is also true, in that others have advantages that I will never have. Life is unfair. You have to find the place where you fit, or make the place fit you. For me, I found a place that fits me.

I wonder why you would begrudge me that, just because it isn't your place too?

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#152

Post by yongjik »

nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

> We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations...

Somehow I keep hearing this when Japan is mentioned, and I have to wonder where this conception comes from. According to Wikipedia, the Kofun Period, the "earliest era of recorded history in Japan," starts around AD 250.

For comparison, Ramses II ruled 1279-1213 BC. Alexander the Great 336-323 BC, China's first emperor 220-210 BC.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#153

Post by ap22213 »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #12

Basically there are two definitions of poverty with two crowds of followers. 1. People are poor if they can't afford (basic) things. People are very poor if they go hungry to bed. 2. People are poor if they earn less [1] than the average (not median) household. From the article "The report looked at the gap between the income of the poorest Japanese families with children and the average household income." When does…

I'm curious as to why you think such a distinction would improve discussions. To me, it seems like an arbitrary distinction to make.

But, I suppose it begs a question of why we discuss poverty, at all? I presume it's because some of us don't like to see suffering or despair. Or, we don't like some people being left out of prosperity. Or, are there other reasons?

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#154

Post by Chris2048 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #140
Chris2048 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, first time I've got a negative points score on a comment. And for a statement of fact supported by some of the replies to this post. What's going on?!?

I didn't downvote you, but I'll take a guess. You said that Japan was ahead in the reported statistics. And that statement is perfectly true. (What, we're going to use unreported statistics?) But it either says something very trivial, or else it implies that the reported statistics are unreliable and misleading. But it doesn't actually come out and say that. Still less does it supply any evidence for that. A better,…

> unreported statistics

Stats with more verification. A structured study as opposed to looking at police reports. Again, reported sexual-assaults in the UK can not be compared to other countries unless you consider the difference in reporting rates.

It is not trivial to consider that before drawing conclusions from, or comparing, stats between countries, you need the context to properly interpret them.

The burden of proof is not on me, I am not making a claim. I did not use the stats to support a conclusion. As soon as you do, you need to justify that those figures can be interpreted the way you imply they should.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#155

Post by turar »

nihonde wrote: post #150
tmptmp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good that you put some balance in his/her overly rosy picture. Hope he/she learns a bit from this.

Yes, he really put me in my place! If you choose to focus on the negative, you'll get victimhood and negativity. It's simply a fact that Japan doesn't welcome foreign Asian people. That's why almost everyone here is Japanese. Should I be concerned that everyone isn't welcome here? In my home country, everyone is welcome and there is an imperative to treat everyone as if they're equals——frankly, the result of that soc…

I'm curious, why would treating everyone as if they're equals make you run away to Japan?

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#156

Post by kafkaesque »

nihonde wrote: post #151
kafkaesque wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm ready to take all the downvotes. You have lived a very privileged life in Japan, my friend. I have travelled to Japan and have a fiancee who is Zainichi North Korean. I urge you to stop interpreting Japanese culture with such extreme rose-coloured glasses and tone down your extreme positivity because it is blinding you from having the "balanced view" you say you have of Japan. Furthermore, it is insulting to mino…

1. There are less than 10K homeless in a nation of 150MM+. 2. This is a sexist culture, to be sure. Women wield a lot of power in the home, but endure a lot of nonsense from insecure men. It's an abstraction for me, though. I'm surrounded by strong women, and men who respect them. I'm sympathetic, but it doesn't have any impact on my daily life. 3. As for racism, this is a monoculture. Koreans are both revered and de…

> If I felt unwelcome here, I would not like this place, and I would leave it.

> You have to find the place where you fit, or make the place fit you.

This is an extremely ignorant thing to say. I recommend having a read of the history of Koreans in Japan. They cannot just pick up their stuff and leave. Some Koreans like Japan, sure, but others do not because they do not want to change the way many Japanese people want them to.

I saw that you wrote that you have ancestors from Northern Europe in this thread. I assume you mean Scandinavia? If this is correct, by this I deduce that you are White. It's pretty obvious, but Whites have a vastly different experience in Japan. They have a very privileged experience. Most of us know the majority of Japanese (especially women) love White, blue-eyed, blonde foreigners. And even if you don't have these characteristics, you are still viewed as White to them as an American, as long as you are not black, and for that you receive extra special treatment and they offer you concessions because, in their eyes, you are not Japanese, will never be, and will never really understand their culture.

Let me be clear: everything you write comes from a place of comfort, privilege and where people go easy on you because you surround yourself with people who love White foreigners.

Why do I say this? Because I am White and I have been to Japan. Every single person was extremely nice to me, and so I thought these people could never be mean to anyone else. However, I spoke with a family of minorities, some people who are now part of my family circle that I love, and other Japanese friends to understand how the same people that treated me so well treated others so poorly.

And absolutely: Japan will never be my place, even though they treat me with such love and attention. I believe in treating everyone genuinely and equally, though.

I don't necessarily begrudge your lifestyle. I take issue with foreigners in Japan painting Japanese people in such a one-sided way. I can list the many things of Japan that I like, but I feel I need to balance out what you're saying here.

And I'm going to call you out and say you sound exactly like the old Japanese "Baby Boomer" generation who nag the yutori generation (Gen Y-equivalent, if the HN crowd is following this discussion), when it was these baby boomers who have lived such a privileged life during great economic times in Japan. Congrats! You've assimilated wonderfully!

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#157

Post by dang »

brandelune wrote: post #123
bcook wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you removed "The author is stupid." from your post, I (and other "adults", assumedly) would be much more receptive to the rest of your post. (If you remove that line, I'll delete this post.)

You're free to look like an ass. But if you're suggesting that the author is not stupid, it either means that you've not read the article, or that you don't have a clue about the reality here in Japan, or that you're not very smart yourself.

This comment breaks the HN guidelines that ask you to be civil and not to call names in arguments. Some of your other comments have done this as well. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#158

Post by nihonde »

turar wrote: post #155
nihonde wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, he really put me in my place! If you choose to focus on the negative, you'll get victimhood and negativity. It's simply a fact that Japan doesn't welcome foreign Asian people. That's why almost everyone here is Japanese. Should I be concerned that everyone isn't welcome here? In my home country, everyone is welcome and there is an imperative to treat everyone as if they're equals——frankly, the result of that soc…

I'm curious, why would treating everyone as if they're equals make you run away to Japan?

Take for example a school project...if the group is graded based on everyone's contribution, but you've got one person who contributes nothing or actually makes it harder for the others to contribute. The person who drags everyone else down was given an equal opportunity, but they squandered it and actually interfered with the opportunities of others who would otherwise take advantage of it. If you're forced to tolerate that person who is a negative and pander to them as if there isn't a problem, you're held hostage by the weakest link, and the entire group wastes time on fundamental problems of getting any work done at all, while they should be moving up the ladder of solving higher and higher order problems. Eventually, the frustration of the negative actor begets apathy and a sense of insurmountable problems, and endless discussion about matters that should never need to be discussed while real work goes unfinished. This is the condition of America in 2016.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#159

Post by tmptmp »

nihonde wrote: post #158
turar wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, why would treating everyone as if they're equals make you run away to Japan?

Take for example a school project...if the group is graded based on everyone's contribution, but you've got one person who contributes nothing or actually makes it harder for the others to contribute. The person who drags everyone else down was given an equal opportunity, but they squandered it and actually interfered with the opportunities of others who would otherwise take advantage of it. If you're forced to toler…

This is quite a good response. Even though I criticized you for depicting overly positive picture of Japan, I praise you to bring this point out. I am not an American but I like America and its open culture. But what you are saying is also important. An excessively open culture that also tolerates negative elements is headed towards trouble. And if it forces/preaches its "good" members to tolerate the intolerance of new/old "bad" members, then the "good" elements in that nation feel frustrated and the nation as a whole slides down the path to failure. I guess, the excessive "political correctness" might be forcing America the way you are suggesting.
Post reply on HN