MS and Oracle's big dev tools - who needs 'em? - Viva Emacs and Vim
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MS and Oracle's big dev tools - who needs 'em? - Viva Emacs and Vim
1–10 of 15 posts
Re: MS and Oracle's big dev tools - who needs 'em? - Viva Emacs and Vim
#2The funny thing is that when compared to Visual Studio (and JDeveloper?), NetBeans, IntelliJ and even Eclipse can be considered lightweight.
Re: MS and Oracle's big dev tools - who needs 'em? - Viva Emacs and Vim
#3I think part of the issue is that languages like C# (and I would suspect Java) were literally designed with the IDE in mind. Languages like Ruby were designed to be easy to use without an IDE. I'd prefer the latter, but I suppose a valid case can be made for the former.
On a personal level, I agree with Reginald Braithwaite (sp?) when he said that IDE features are language smells. I think a good language should be easy to use in any IDE.
Re: MS and Oracle's big dev tools - who needs 'em? - Viva Emacs and Vim
#4I tend to stick to Vim for everything Java, Scala, Python etc.
:vimgrep along with :tabedit works nicely. To help with nested path I tend to have paths for my project setup in .zshrc so I can do :e $PROJECT_SRC/foo/bar/x.java or $PROJECT_TEST/foo/bar/simple.java.
vim + terminator[1] + build tool (ant, maven, sbt [2], scons...) works very nicely for me.
Two reasons I stay away from IDEs: a) I find them horribly unresponsive b) Being used to Vim for the last 10 or so years I find I am very quick with it.
[1] http://www.tenshu.net/terminator/ [2] http://code.google.com/p/simple-build-tool/
Re: MS and Oracle's big dev tools - who needs 'em? - Viva Emacs and Vim
#5The main thing I miss from "big" IDEs is decent refactoring tools.
The one thing I don't miss is having them take over my project workspace. That really irritates me.
Re: MS and Oracle's big dev tools - who needs 'em? - Viva Emacs and Vim
#6While I do agree that development, build, and testing shouldn’t rely on a single IDE/toolset, I have to admit that I really do enjoy the explorative properties of many of the current IDEs for Java, C++, and C#. When I need to dig through foreign code I always find it a lot easier to do it using a IDE that has good jump and search capabilities like Eclipse.
Re: MS and Oracle's big dev tools - who needs 'em? - Viva Emacs and Vim
#7The funny thing is that when compared to Visual Studio (and JDeveloper?), NetBeans, IntelliJ and even Eclipse can be considered lightweight.
That's actually true. A fresh install of Visual Studio (VS) is already quite heavy, but when you install an add-in like ReSharper (hands down, it's still one of the best add-ins for VS) on top of it everything gets more heavy and slower. Yet still, for the time I had worked with Eclipse during my studies, I have to say (languages set aside) that I enjoy more to work with VS.
Re: MS and Oracle's big dev tools - who needs 'em? - Viva Emacs and Vim
#8The funny thing is that when compared to Visual Studio (and JDeveloper?), NetBeans, IntelliJ and even Eclipse can be considered lightweight.
That's actually true. A fresh install of Visual Studio (VS) is already quite heavy, but when you install an add-in like ReSharper (hands down, it's still one of the best add-ins for VS) on top of it everything gets more heavy and slower. Yet still, for the time I had worked with Eclipse during my studies, I have to say (languages set aside) that I enjoy more to work with VS.
Most users of Visual Studio I've spoken to usually recommendeds the ReSharper addon, like you just did. ReSharper is a nice tool, no doubt about it. But what I don't understand is how Visual Studio can be so big and heavy and still don't have refactoring tools that can match ReSharper.
Re: MS and Oracle's big dev tools - who needs 'em? - Viva Emacs and Vim
#9I think part of the issue is that languages like C# (and I would suspect Java) were literally designed with the IDE in mind. Languages like Ruby were designed to be easy to use without an IDE. I'd prefer the latter, but I suppose a valid case can be made for the former. On a personal level, I agree with Reginald Braithwaite (sp?) when he said that IDE features are language smells. I think a good language should be ea…
Never thought of it that way. Of course, I wouldn't call it a language smell, rather a framework or library smell. C# isn't complicated. The frameworks and libraries on top of it are a bit much, and that's where the IDE really helps. C is a small language, but tack on a framework and you aren't learning C as much as you are learning the framework. Same things for Rails.
Of course, no one is going to use C# without the frameworks and libraries added in, so I guess you almost have to include the IDE support. But then, seeing what VS 2010 can do makes me wish Eclipse or Netbeans could do it as well. Couple that with the fact that Eclipse and Netbeans feel so heavy and clumsy compared to 2010 despite 2010's size and beta status.
Re: MS and Oracle's big dev tools - who needs 'em? - Viva Emacs and Vim
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's actually true. A fresh install of Visual Studio (VS) is already quite heavy, but when you install an add-in like ReSharper (hands down, it's still one of the best add-ins for VS) on top of it everything gets more heavy and slower. Yet still, for the time I had worked with Eclipse during my studies, I have to say (languages set aside) that I enjoy more to work with VS.
Most users of Visual Studio I've spoken to usually recommendeds the ReSharper addon, like you just did. ReSharper is a nice tool, no doubt about it. But what I don't understand is how Visual Studio can be so big and heavy and still don't have refactoring tools that can match ReSharper.
That's the question I'm asking myself, too. They added a lot of functionality to VS (unit testing, TFS support etc.), but they never added more refactorings, which I and surely others would appreciate. ReSharper's refactoring functionality is right now the only reason I would consider to install the add-in, but since I didn't need any of the advanced refactorings yet, I'm keeping ReSharper away from my VS installation. I get my work done without it, so I see no need to bloat VS any more :) But, I surely can recommend to install it for various other reasons, e.g. I stumbled upon a few interesting things thanks to its suggestions.