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Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

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Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#171

Post by gerpsh »

jokamoto wrote: post #15
VeejayRampay wrote: post #3

What about Ryder Hesjedal's bike spinning on itself a few years back? Are we addressing that as well? It feels like the UCI is only going after easy pickings to prove a point and not doing its best to actually to fight mechanical cheating in fear of yet another scandal.

That's already been demonstrated to be a side effect of a still-spinning rear wheel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak7xP8eghog It should also be noted that "incident" occurred on a fast downhill section while Hesjedal wasn't pedaling so even if there were a motor it is exceedingly unlikely it would still be engaged at the time of the crash. With a plausible physical explanation and no way to go back in time to chec…

I'm willing to believe the explanation for this particular case, but I find the Cancellara video to be much more damning, and a pretty strong hint that mechanical doping has found its way into the highest levels of the sport:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nd13ARuvVE

The way he just smokes everyone around him without changing his cadence, standing out of the saddle, or even changing the expression on his face seems at least a little suspicious.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#172

Post by dpark »

methehack wrote: post #145
methehack wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While they're at it, they should make better humans.

My point here is that I have always found it so completely unfathomable that someone would spend so much time on an activity -- any activity -- and then cheat. Cheating is about looking better, not being better. At the same time, it robs others, equally devoted, of a fair basis of comparison. That it ever happens is amazing to me; yet, it happens all the time at the highest levels of competition. And it happens in ac…

There was a paper shared on HN a month or two ago about this. Winners cheat more. Not just cheaters win, but winners turn to cheating. The high from a win is addictive. It feels good, so you want it to continue. Winners also pick up the feeling that they deserve to win and so cheating is somehow justified. Add to this all the external pressure and the monetary rewards and cheating isn't really surprising at all.

I bet if you did a survey of cheaters in pretty much any field, you'd find that the biggest offenders are not people who had no chance without cheating, but people who had significant success and then turned to cheating to continue or to increase that success.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#173

Post by mikestew »

bodyloss wrote: post #76

How does the UCI enforce a fine? When you race do you have to sign a contract stating that you will pay any penalties, or can the fine be seen as "must be paid before competing again"?

You don't have to pay it, but you won't be racing again. As a former USA Cycling official, I'd occasionally fine riders for infractions (usually $20-50 payable to the youth rider fund). They didn't have to pay it, as I had no enforcement authority outside of bike races. However, if I saw you next week and you hadn't paid the fine, you won't be at the start line. I couldn't make you pay it, but I could prevent you from racing.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#174

Post by mikestew »

davidw wrote: post #168
waynecochran wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get it -- you like cycling -- I do to. I think the races are so grueling that it was the first sport to find methods to endure the inhumane distances and terrain. But if you really like cycling you got to come to grips with how dirty the profession is -- real change won't happen until the organizers pull their heads out of the sand. Take a look at the leaderboards at the Tour de France -- these are just those that…

I like cycling, and I like clean cycling, and it does not do any good to smear the whole sport with "dirty!". What's that do to the guys who are competing clean? It pisses all over their efforts is what it does. It's not fair, and it does not help. Soccer is certainly not as hard as cycling ( https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/55/b5/51/55b551bfa... ) , but with that much money involved, being relatively fresh…

What's that do to the guys who are competing clean?

And just who would be on that short list? Like the commenter to whom you reply, I too used to be into cycling. Paid for streaming all the races. Used to race myself, and was a race official. But one after another got popped. I used to say that if Jens Voigt ever tested positive, I'd quit watching the sport, because I thought him to be the epitome of the hard-working rider who gets by on hard work and talent. Now I'm pretty sure Jens is on the juice, too. Hell, amateurs are getting popped for doping in Grand Fondos, where there's no money and no one gives a shit. Yeah, I'm going to smear the whole sport, because it's demonstrated to be dirty top to bottom. Go read A Dog in a Hat, about an American's time low-level racing in Europe. In that author's experience, everybody dopes. Doping defines cycling, IMO, and it's been that way for years.

So I don't pay any attention the sport at all and watch MotoGP instead. Because playing the game of "who's clean and who's not" is not why I watched the sport. Sure, the sprinkling of clean riders get caught in the downward spiraling revenues, but that's not my problem.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#175

Post by nitrogen »

e40 wrote: post #128

“I was stood in the pit next to Femke’s entourage,” he said then. “I don’t quite know what it was, but something seemed a bit weird there. The whole team had walkie talkie radios, ear pieces and seemed pretty anxious and, overall, just a bit odd. I’d never seen that before and it kind of stuck in my head.” Very clear that everyone knew about it.

Confirmation bias can lead to seeing "guilty" behavior everywhere. Lots of people are just a bit odd at major events without being guilty of anything.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#176

Post by davidw »

mikestew wrote: post #174
davidw wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like cycling, and I like clean cycling, and it does not do any good to smear the whole sport with "dirty!". What's that do to the guys who are competing clean? It pisses all over their efforts is what it does. It's not fair, and it does not help. Soccer is certainly not as hard as cycling ( https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/55/b5/51/55b551bfa... ) , but with that much money involved, being relatively fresh…

What's that do to the guys who are competing clean? And just who would be on that short list? Like the commenter to whom you reply, I too used to be into cycling. Paid for streaming all the races. Used to race myself, and was a race official. But one after another got popped. I used to say that if Jens Voigt ever tested positive, I'd quit watching the sport, because I thought him to be the epitome of the hard-working…

I'd bet good money that Taylor Phinney competes clean.

Also: Jens Voigt retired a few years ago.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#177

Post by fiftyacorn »

Did anyone listen too the Telegraph Cycling Podcast - they were talking about respected journalists being convinced some of the big names have been using motors. They expect any revelations to come before the tour of italy or france - as is normal for big cycling stories

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#179

Post by wkimeria »

giarc wrote: post #88

>She also said that this bike was taken by accident by her helpers to the pit area. >She claimed that he had put a motor in unbeknownst to her What is with athletes and never admitting their mistakes. You were caught, I would have much more respect for someone if they just came out and said "Yes, I did it, I take full responsibility." Instead they come up with these ridiculous excuses that do nothing but continue to…

Maybe she's telling the truth and the bike had a disappearing twin?

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#180

Post by SkyMarshal »

What's interesting to me is that these folks, from Lance to moto-users, think there's a reasonable chance they won't get caught cheating at one of the most observed, recorded, scrutinized events in the world. They're playing a delicate game of signaling and information theory.

Either they're right and the ones who were actually caught were only the tip of the iceberg, or they're making what should be a blatantly obvious miscalculation of the odds of getting caught. Not sure which yet.

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