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Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

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Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#161

Post by tmptmp »

altotrees wrote: post #151

Being a cycling fan and rider, and reading quite a bit about the various allegations and methods of cheating over the years have led to me becoming quite jaded — and not surprised in the least at this announcement. Thinking of all the ways riders have cheated, from Lance's blood-doping to the Festina Affair to Marco Pantani...it just seems like many of the icons of the sport are mired in cheating and doping scandals,…

>>This leads me to wonder why cheating is so rampant in the sport?

May be one of the major reasons is money involved. Cheating is one side the other is fixing: with aim to get more and quick money. In first case, i.e. of cheating, you aim for money by becoming famous and then grab advert contracts. In the other case, you get direct money to lose.

Money and advertisement are destroying many a sports. Sadly, it seems to go worse.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#162

Post by Someone »

mgberlin wrote: post #30
buro9 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there was the race at the Koppenberg where she smashed everyone up the hill setting the Strava QOM, then lost lots of positions on the descents and technical parts, right until the next lap of the hill where she smashed up it again. Rinse repeat. It's not surprising the ban starts at a date earlier than when she was caught, the UCI strongly believe she was using the motor earlier.

I'm not familiar with that race specifically, but it's not unheard of for a young rider to have massive strength, but little technical skill. The ability to descent and maneuver technically only comes with years in the saddle.

There is considerable variation in the ability to descent in the senior peloton, and I don't think it is correlated with age; some people just are better at the subtle work, such as recovering from a wheel slipping away, and some have more brute power.

For example, the ability to bunny hop varies. http://www.cxmagazine.com/to-hop-or-not-bunny-hopping-cycloc... claims that, in Sven Nijs's case, it is to do with his BMX experience.

I couldn't find a good video from cycle-cross, but here is a nice example from road racing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPHnqI13vPk. Not everybody is as willing to take those risks and as good in recovering from (for him) minor mishaps as Vincenzo Nibali. Some cyclists are even known to take in a few bisons of water at tops of mountains because heavier bikes descend faster.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#163

Post by Symbiote »

hawkice wrote: post #160
Symbiote wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In American, how do you know it's not 123 thousand etc?

The are two ways to distinguish it being one number or two: (1) Context. This helps most of the time. Not the most helpful for computers, or CSV files. (2) Space. 123,456 is one number and 123, 456 are two. Again, not _strictly_ helpful for CSV files, which is why people use e.g. TSV.

Then do the same if it's been written the European way...

My point was the OP is making mountains out of molehills.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#164

Post by Nano2rad »

giarc wrote: post #88

>She also said that this bike was taken by accident by her helpers to the pit area. >She claimed that he had put a motor in unbeknownst to her What is with athletes and never admitting their mistakes. You were caught, I would have much more respect for someone if they just came out and said "Yes, I did it, I take full responsibility." Instead they come up with these ridiculous excuses that do nothing but continue to…

What is the proof what she said is wrong?

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#165

Post by waynecochran »

davidw wrote: post #108
waynecochran wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to really like to follow cycling -- I have now concluded it is the dirtiest sport there is. They are the original dopers -- note that the list starts in the 1800's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cyclin... e.g. 1930 "The acceptance of drug-taking in the Tour de France was so complete by 1930 that the rule book, distributed by Henri Desgrange, reminded riders that drugs would not be provi…

Oh, bullshit. Look at how rotten soccer is from FIFA on down. Look at US sports where those guys were oozing steroids out there ears with basically no consequences. It's just that cycling is kind of a working man's sport in Europe and is sort of caught in a no-man's land: it's not wealthy enough to buy its way out of trouble like soccer and US sports, but does have enough money to attract cheaters. When the scandal l…

I get it -- you like cycling -- I do to. I think the races are so grueling that it was the first sport to find methods to endure the inhumane distances and terrain. But if you really like cycling you got to come to grips with how dirty the profession is -- real change won't happen until the organizers pull their heads out of the sand.

Take a look at the leaderboards at the Tour de France -- these are just those that are caught:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France#2...

It doesn't do any good to point at FIFA soccer... their dirt is more in the power and financial aspect of their sport -- and its horrible. Cycling has far higher demands on the human body in terms of endurance and a willingness to suffer -- thus drugs (and hidden motors) will always be a real temptation.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#166

Post by ww520 »

altotrees wrote: post #151

Being a cycling fan and rider, and reading quite a bit about the various allegations and methods of cheating over the years have led to me becoming quite jaded — and not surprised in the least at this announcement. Thinking of all the ways riders have cheated, from Lance's blood-doping to the Festina Affair to Marco Pantani...it just seems like many of the icons of the sport are mired in cheating and doping scandals,…

It's probably money. Millions of money.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#167

Post by recursive »

methehack wrote: post #145
methehack wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While they're at it, they should make better humans.

My point here is that I have always found it so completely unfathomable that someone would spend so much time on an activity -- any activity -- and then cheat. Cheating is about looking better, not being better. At the same time, it robs others, equally devoted, of a fair basis of comparison. That it ever happens is amazing to me; yet, it happens all the time at the highest levels of competition. And it happens in ac…

Pro athletes aren't just motivated by an intrinsic desire to do the best they can. There is an external pressure to win. It's a real pressure with money behind it. In the case of cycling, teams are supported by sponsors out of their marketing budget. They would like to see their names in the press. (associated with a win obviously, not a cheating scandal)

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#168

Post by davidw »

waynecochran wrote: post #165
davidw wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, bullshit. Look at how rotten soccer is from FIFA on down. Look at US sports where those guys were oozing steroids out there ears with basically no consequences. It's just that cycling is kind of a working man's sport in Europe and is sort of caught in a no-man's land: it's not wealthy enough to buy its way out of trouble like soccer and US sports, but does have enough money to attract cheaters. When the scandal l…

I get it -- you like cycling -- I do to. I think the races are so grueling that it was the first sport to find methods to endure the inhumane distances and terrain. But if you really like cycling you got to come to grips with how dirty the profession is -- real change won't happen until the organizers pull their heads out of the sand. Take a look at the leaderboards at the Tour de France -- these are just those that…

I like cycling, and I like clean cycling, and it does not do any good to smear the whole sport with "dirty!".

What's that do to the guys who are competing clean? It pisses all over their efforts is what it does. It's not fair, and it does not help.

Soccer is certainly not as hard as cycling ( https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/55/b5/51/55b551bfa... ) , but with that much money involved, being relatively fresh after 80 minutes can count for a lot.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#169

Post by Apofis »

buro9 wrote: post #2

This is a follow-up to discussions on "mechanical doping" in cycling. The first story I recall on this topic was in 2010: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2010/may/19/cycling-motors-... This is now 6 years later, and we finally have the first pro cyclist banned based on being caught red-handed at an event with a motor in her bicycle. The type of motor she used was a Vivak, one of these: http://www.vivax-assist.com/en…

Haha wow, for the Vivak, there's even a "Invisible Performance Package".

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#170

Post by cmurf »

r00fus wrote: post #152
DINKDINK wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how would you filter out Bluetooth signals that are and aren't cheating signals?

By cross-correlating with performance shifts (ie, the pulling ahead comment above). It's not a smoking gun, but it could be evidence perhaps to do more thoroughly audit that bike, for example.

The rider's strategy may be merely maintaining relative positioning with the top riders, save energy, and use that small reserve for a better chance in a sprint finish or whatever. It's no way certain someone just starts going faster using one of these.
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