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TypeScript Won

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Re: TypeScript Won

#91

Post by bcoates »

ssmoot wrote: post #73
knowtheory wrote: post #21

I could quibble with the conflation of correlation w/ causation for a lot of the comments this post makes about es6/babel or coffeescript. But each time i re-read this post, the cohesive point that pops out most is that this post is basically a Donald Trump speech about Typescript. The claim is that it's bigger, it's better, and everyone else is a bit sad. It disingenuously claims that it's not about about competitio…

I can't think of any downsides of an optional type checker. Can you? Just curious if there's an argument I hadn't heard before.

Same problems with linters: people write weird code and/or introduce unnecessary changes to correct code that doesn't pass the check.

Also, optional type checkers throw away a lot of the upsides of type systems (safe refactoring, type-aware optimizations, useful generics) so they're kind of a worst-of-both-worlds solution.

Re: TypeScript Won

#92

Post by Touche »

nathancahill wrote: post #89
Touche wrote: post #71

Weird comparisons. People who like Elm aren't going to switch to TypeScript because it's more popular. They are fundamental disagreements that can't be dismissed with a Google Trend chart. TypeScript is currently popular but popularity in JavaScript never last long. The cycle is: * A library that comes out that solves a problem with the previous iteration. * The new popular library has some different problem but peop…

The difference is that Typescript isn't someone's side project where they accidentally typed `npm publish` when they should have typed `rm -r ./` It's backed by M$ and the Github repo is super active, especially in langauge proposals. This will be around for a while.

Sure and Traceur was backed by Google but that didn't stop it from losing the hype train to Babel (which was someone's side project).

The JavaScript hype cycle has no escape hatch. All that go up, must come down. Some things just last a little longer than others.

Re: TypeScript Won

#93

Post by Keats »

d1plo1d wrote: post #38
Keats wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The type system is not that great and inference is quite limited. Definitions are not always existent or up to date and a single repo like definitelytyped is a terrible way to manage all the definitions. The above sounds negative but TS is still the best bet right now imo. Some people will prefer Elm or Purescript for better type systems but I like staying close to JS.

Personally, I'm more excited about Flow because it introduces a modern type system into ES6/ESNext without me having to sacrifice Babel. With regards to types: TypeScript has only recently added support for any kind of Algebraic Data Types whereas Flow was built upon Unions and Intersections from day one. That to me speaks to their priorities.

The fact that Flow doesn't work on Windows is a big limitation.

I prefer the idea of Flow as well but tooling and community is not there yet

Re: TypeScript Won

#94

Post by nathancahill »

Touche wrote: post #92
nathancahill wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that Typescript isn't someone's side project where they accidentally typed `npm publish` when they should have typed `rm -r ./` It's backed by M$ and the Github repo is super active, especially in langauge proposals. This will be around for a while.

Sure and Traceur was backed by Google but that didn't stop it from losing the hype train to Babel (which was someone's side project). The JavaScript hype cycle has no escape hatch. All that go up, must come down. Some things just last a little longer than others.

> Backed by Google

Exactly the problem. Like all other Google projects, they bailed on it.

Re: TypeScript Won

#95

Post by nathancahill »

untog wrote: post #74

Choosing a winner based on Google Trends? Hmm. Pointing out that CoffeeScript is on the decline because Google Trends for it once peaked and has since declined? Hmm. Failing to consider that TypeScript might be at a similar peak and is due a similar decline? Hmm.

Posting pointless comments?

Hmm.

Re: TypeScript Won

#96

Post by mercurial »

bcoates wrote: post #91
ssmoot wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of any downsides of an optional type checker. Can you? Just curious if there's an argument I hadn't heard before.

Same problems with linters: people write weird code and/or introduce unnecessary changes to correct code that doesn't pass the check. Also, optional type checkers throw away a lot of the upsides of type systems (safe refactoring, type-aware optimizations, useful generics) so they're kind of a worst-of-both-worlds solution.

> Same problems with linters: people write weird code and/or introduce unnecessary changes to correct code that doesn't pass the check.

Having just converted a bunch of pure Javascript to Typescript, and writing new code in Typescript, this hasn't been an issue.

> Also, optional type checkers throw away a lot of the upsides of type systems (safe refactoring, type-aware optimizations, useful generics) so they're kind of a worst-of-both-worlds solution.

I'm not sure what you mean by "throwing away safe refactoring" but yeah, you don't get the performance benefits or reified generics (not that it's particularly useful). That said, it's not like you derive any performance benefit from Java generics either.

Re: TypeScript Won

#97

Post by untog »

nathancahill wrote: post #95
untog wrote: post #74

Choosing a winner based on Google Trends? Hmm. Pointing out that CoffeeScript is on the decline because Google Trends for it once peaked and has since declined? Hmm. Failing to consider that TypeScript might be at a similar peak and is due a similar decline? Hmm.

Posting pointless comments? Hmm.

What exactly is pointless about what I said? The article presents no good data to back up its assertion, and even raises a potential issue then doesn't address it.

Re: TypeScript Won

#98

Post by billti »

softawre wrote: post #83
woah wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried a async/await?

async/await isn't in TypeScript yet, if that's what you were implying. It will be though (and obviously is part of babel if you choose the right pieces).

async/await has been in TypeScript for a while, but currently depend on generators, so don't down-level to With the latest Node releases and modern browsers supporting generators today, you can target ES6 and use async/await today if you can target those environments.

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/typescript/2015/11/03/what-...

Re: TypeScript Won

#99

Post by nathancahill »

kowdermeister wrote: post #81

If I absolutely must choose a "winner" (what does that even mean?) then I would give the golden medal to the one that has a standard behind it. I think it's a very pointless thing to pick a winner. It's not a popularity contest. You will be able to tell that some technology is "lost" or is over, when the popularity will be declined to the 0.0.1 alpha release state.

The standard doesn't keep up fast enough with the pace of development in the JS ecosystem. That's why Babel's plugin architecture is so great. It allows super fast paced experimentation with new language features, without having to get buy-in from browser vendors or even JS family languages.

Re: TypeScript Won

#100

Post by mercurial »

Keats wrote: post #93
d1plo1d wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I'm more excited about Flow because it introduces a modern type system into ES6/ESNext without me having to sacrifice Babel. With regards to types: TypeScript has only recently added support for any kind of Algebraic Data Types whereas Flow was built upon Unions and Intersections from day one. That to me speaks to their priorities.

The fact that Flow doesn't work on Windows is a big limitation. I prefer the idea of Flow as well but tooling and community is not there yet

There are occasionally Windows builds by the OCamlPro people popping up.

The fact that last time I checked, it wasn't able to consume TSD signatures from third-party libraries (or offer an equivalent system with a significant amount of libraries) is a much bigger issue IMHO.

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