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Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

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Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#141

Post by radiorental »

nisa wrote: post #118
radiorental wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is worse, proprietary closed system from car manufacturer or OSS system. There's as many pros on one side as cons on the other.

False dichotomy - I think it should be similar to Kerckhoffs's principle in the long run. OSS yes, but it's signed and audited when it's able to run. Maybe like an open source version of microcode updates for CPUs. You could file a pull request because you spotted a bug but you can't fuck around your car (bad, but not so bad) and other cars (very bad). If the Toyota code would be public we'd hear a lot of guys scream…

Does the fact that most of the code in your car is autogenerated from tools like Modelica change your view on how likely this can/should be opened?

That is, the 'model' is the truth and the IP. The generated code is spaghetti, the vendors components are black boxes, and their 'code' is nothing more than another locked subsystem in the model.

Let's say in an ideal world, these mission critical systems must be opened - what do you propose everyone's business model should be? If everyone must see each others models... where is the free market competitive advantage to be gained?

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#142

Post by ck2 »

milesokeefe wrote: post #52
ck2 wrote: post #34

Sigh, really looking forward to someday affording a 4th or 5th-hand used tesla, maybe by 2022

The Model 3 is relatively affordable.

My car budget is always around $3k max

Model 3 is ten times that.

Hence 4th or 5th hand used.

I expect I'll have to rebuild the battery pack myself.

By then there should be really good documentation and cheap chinese knockoffs of the cells (that last half as long as oem).

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#143

Post by Smurfix »

Hemera- wrote: post #108
jeena wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's like if you replace the breaks yourself.

This is exactly how I think of it. No one questions people doing mechanical work on their car, but touch the software and you get crucified.

People still don' (want to) understand software.

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#144

Post by Smurfix »

gjolund wrote: post #2

Dude you are my hero. I look forward to the day that I can sit in my car with my friends, smoking something, watching a movie, and letting the self driving vehicle wander around LA while we look for interesting places to stop and explore. I would never use my couch again. Edit: If tesla begins making showers I may not even need an apartment.

Dudette, actually. Pay attention. :-P

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#145

Post by dimino »

peterwwillis wrote: post #138
BasDirks wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That aspect, that it was at one time, or still is, gender-specific, is what makes it inappropriate to call a person who doesn't identify with that gender." Why do you think you can dictate what _is_ inappropriate for the rest of mankind?

Humankind. :-) And I don't get to do anything other than dictate my own behavior, and try to express an idea. Sorry if that came off as dictatorial. What I meant to say was: Anyone who would rather treat someone how they personally want them to be treated, rather than how the other person wishes to be treated, has forgotten The Golden Rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule In terms of human relations in gene…

The Golden Rule fails to account for masochists, or differing cultures, or basically anything that makes people different from one another.

For example, by the "Golden Rule", I'd want to be called a "dude" if I were a girl, because I consider it a sign of equality.

You can feel free to disagree with that, but if it's how I'd want to be treated, then by the power of the Golden Rule, I should call girls "dudes".

I'd even go so far as to argue that the "Golden Rule" is doing precisely what you just said was bad -- it puts too much focus on you ("how would you want to be treated").

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#146

Post by peterwwillis »

dimino wrote: post #145
peterwwillis wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humankind. :-) And I don't get to do anything other than dictate my own behavior, and try to express an idea. Sorry if that came off as dictatorial. What I meant to say was: Anyone who would rather treat someone how they personally want them to be treated, rather than how the other person wishes to be treated, has forgotten The Golden Rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule In terms of human relations in gene…

The Golden Rule fails to account for masochists, or differing cultures, or basically anything that makes people different from one another. For example, by the "Golden Rule", I'd want to be called a "dude" if I were a girl, because I consider it a sign of equality. You can feel free to disagree with that, but if it's how I'd want to be treated, then by the power of the Golden Rule, I should call girls "dudes". I'd ev…

You just used a really obvious example of circular reasoning, a logical fallacy.

You are not every girl on the planet. Some girls don't like being called dude. With those particular girls, if you call them dude, you are being rude. If you want them to be rude right back to you then I guess keep doing what you're doing.

The Golden Rule totally accounts for edge cases. If someone is a masochist, you ask them if they are a masochist, and then you ask them if they want to be treated a certain way. If someone is from a different culture, you can learn about different cultures to [for example] learn which hand to shake hands with, or you can ask if you aren't sure.

If you want to be treated like an asshole, then be an asshole. But the rule is meant to guide you towards not being an asshole. It doesn't put too much focus on you, it puts just enough focus to hopefully prevent you from getting yourself killed by an angry woman who really doesn't like being called "dude", or getting the crap kicked out of you in a country where shaking hands with the wrong hand is a huge offense. Does this make more sense?

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#147

Post by arcticfox »

eric_h wrote: post #105
ryanlol wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gjolunds post was definitely in the second person though.

Indeed it was, I was replying to arcticfox, who I thought overgeneralized (hence my reply). [Edit] and I now realize that this whole subthread could have been avoided had my original comment lead with "In this case yes, but...", live and learn :P

True. The second/third person clarification is a good one for speakers that may not know better.

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#148

Post by dimino »

peterwwillis wrote: post #146
dimino wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Golden Rule fails to account for masochists, or differing cultures, or basically anything that makes people different from one another. For example, by the "Golden Rule", I'd want to be called a "dude" if I were a girl, because I consider it a sign of equality. You can feel free to disagree with that, but if it's how I'd want to be treated, then by the power of the Golden Rule, I should call girls "dudes". I'd ev…

You just used a really obvious example of circular reasoning, a logical fallacy. You are not every girl on the planet. Some girls don't like being called dude. With those particular girls, if you call them dude, you are being rude. If you want them to be rude right back to you then I guess keep doing what you're doing. The Golden Rule totally accounts for edge cases. If someone is a masochist, you ask them if they ar…

How is that circular reasoning? Genuine question, I've always thought the Golden Rule sucked for the reason I outlined. It says nothing about asking how people want to be treated, only that you should treat them how you want to be treated.

You're saying something that isn't what's in the Golden Rule.

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#149

Post by peterwwillis »

dimino wrote: post #148
peterwwillis wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just used a really obvious example of circular reasoning, a logical fallacy. You are not every girl on the planet. Some girls don't like being called dude. With those particular girls, if you call them dude, you are being rude. If you want them to be rude right back to you then I guess keep doing what you're doing. The Golden Rule totally accounts for edge cases. If someone is a masochist, you ask them if they ar…

How is that circular reasoning? Genuine question, I've always thought the Golden Rule sucked for the reason I outlined. It says nothing about asking how people want to be treated, only that you should treat them how you want to be treated. You're saying something that isn't what's in the Golden Rule.

Imagine you're traveling the desert thousands of years ago. You come upon a party of nomads. You would like water, and you would like them not to rob you, kill you, and bury you in the sand. It's very important you don't say or do anything to offend them. You want them to treat you with respect and kindness, so you have to treat them as such.

But how do you do that? The rule does not cover that at all. But somehow you figure out how, and they give you water. In gratitude, as an interpretation of the rule, you give them flint to make fire. The nomads, it turns out, will use the flint to make a fire and cauterize a wound that would otherwise have gotten infected.

Sometimes you will be the nomads, and sometimes the traveler. The rule is really just a reminder to think about this situation at all times; it doesn't spell it out for you.

It was circular reasoning because you were saying if A is B (some girls like to be called dude), then B is A (you should call girls dude). You're using the premise to prove itself, like "I breathe air because I can breathe air". It provides no evidence of why this is so, nor account for any extra factors (if A is "some girls like being called dude", there must be a C: the rest of the girls that don't like being called dude. But C is never addressed)

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#150

Post by dimino »

peterwwillis wrote: post #149
dimino wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that circular reasoning? Genuine question, I've always thought the Golden Rule sucked for the reason I outlined. It says nothing about asking how people want to be treated, only that you should treat them how you want to be treated. You're saying something that isn't what's in the Golden Rule.

Imagine you're traveling the desert thousands of years ago. You come upon a party of nomads. You would like water, and you would like them not to rob you, kill you, and bury you in the sand. It's very important you don't say or do anything to offend them. You want them to treat you with respect and kindness, so you have to treat them as such. But how do you do that? The rule does not cover that at all. But somehow yo…

Okay I think you get what I'm saying. The Golden Rule would have gotten you killed in the desert if those nomads find flint to be some kind of sacred metal only their priests can carry or something equally absurd.

I just don't think "treat people with kindness" is what the Golden Rule says. That might be the intent of the people who reference it, but the Golden Rule literally says, "Treat others how you wish to be treated", which makes the assumption that "how you wish to be treated" is universal. I agree, realistically one should treat people how they wish to be treated, but that's not what the Golden Rule says.

My point re: calling girls dudes is that you simply cannot know if a girl does or doesn't want to be called a dude unless they express a preference, which may or may not happen. Some girls like to be called dudes (A), and we should do to others what they like us to do to them (B), therefore we should call those girls dudes (C). (B) is not the Golden Rule as such, because how I'd like to be treated doesn't apply to someone else (see nomad flint worshipers above).

I just want to be clear that what you're saying is not what I have issue with -- yes, we should definitely treat others in the manner in which they'd prefer to be treated. My issue is entirely with the characterization of this as the "Golden Rule". I don't believe that's what the text of the Golden Rule reads as.

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