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TypeScript Won

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Re: TypeScript Won

#51

Post by woah »

gcb0 wrote: post #40

... won the disposable syntax sugar of the month. next month people will want memory protection in JavaScript and JavaScript developers being JavaScript developers will create a new project from scratch with new syntax, just like Babel did from coffee and like typescript did from Babel. meh. this is all needed because you have a team that doesn't know how to agree on coding style or something. yes, it would be nice t…

Babel is a program which compiles a newer version of JS into an older version, so that you can use the new version on platforms that don't support it yet. I can't tell if you're aware of what it is.

Re: TypeScript Won

#52

Post by avolcano »

thejameskyle wrote: post #49

It's frustrating that the only reason thats really given for TypeScript being "better" than Babel is that it has more downloads, using incorrect charts to prove it. Here's the actual download charts if you are interested: https://twitter.com/thejameskyle/status/725344218411986946 Source: - babel-core: http://npm-stat.com/charts.html?package=babel-core&author=&f... - typescript: http://npm-stat.com/charts.html?package…

fwiw, TypeScript -> Babel is doable, if painful. I have it set up in my repo here: https://github.com/thomasboyt/manygolf

I agree that Flow currently the superior type system (and, unlike TypeScript, not a complete nightmare to set up if you're wanting to use Babel/Webpack instead of manually running file builds through your editor like it's 2002), but TypeScript has significantly more momentum behind it making it a much more practical solution for basically anyone who doesn't currently work at Facebook. There are also several exciting new features coming to the type system that brings it closer to parity with Flow:

Non-nullable types: https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript/pull/7140

Control flow type analysis: https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript/pull/8010

I wish TypeScript tried to better-integrate with the greater JavaScript ecosystem and stop acting as a language of its own. Thankfully, the "es6" target gets it pretty close (I think it still compiles some es7 features, meaning you can't have Babel handle everything yet), and the non-standard module syntax seems to be a thing of the past.

I hope the gap can be bridged between the TypeScript and Babel communities, so that TypeScript can one day be shipped as a Babel transform, same as Flow.

Re: TypeScript Won

#53

Post by doodpants »

mordocai wrote: post #45
knowtheory wrote: post #21

I could quibble with the conflation of correlation w/ causation for a lot of the comments this post makes about es6/babel or coffeescript. But each time i re-read this post, the cohesive point that pops out most is that this post is basically a Donald Trump speech about Typescript. The claim is that it's bigger, it's better, and everyone else is a bit sad. It disingenuously claims that it's not about about competitio…

On point 2, I don't think an optional type checker has any real downsides that I can think of (optional because with typescript you don't have to add type annotations to your code). It helps with debugging and possibly performance but you can choose not to use it. The rest of your comment I agree with.

I have no experience with TypeScript, but in general the downside of optional language features is when you're working with a team, and different people end up using different dialects of the language.

Re: TypeScript Won

#54

Post by endergen »

thejameskyle wrote: post #49

It's frustrating that the only reason thats really given for TypeScript being "better" than Babel is that it has more downloads, using incorrect charts to prove it. Here's the actual download charts if you are interested: https://twitter.com/thejameskyle/status/725344218411986946 Source: - babel-core: http://npm-stat.com/charts.html?package=babel-core&author=&f... - typescript: http://npm-stat.com/charts.html?package…

What makes you say flow is a better type system?

Re: TypeScript Won

#55

Post by woah »

saosebastiao wrote: post #6
koolba wrote: post #2

Does anyone here have bad things to say about TypeScript? I haven't used it for any large projects yet (couple toy ones) but seems pretty legit. Based on my anecdata, people who have used it at scale seems to like it. I can't tell if that's because they're still in the honeymoon phase or if it really is a step forward for the long term.

In terms of Javascript targeting languages, Typescript has been the only one that hasn't made me want to murder a thousand baby seals. The build system is fast and easily understood, the typing makes refactoring so much easier, and in probably its biggest win, I can read a Javascript tutorial and trivially write the same thing in Typescript. As a language, though, it still leaves a lot to be desired. Things like type…

Have you tried a async/await?

Re: TypeScript Won

#57

Post by rhinoceraptor »

Or it could be that Babel downloads are declining because it's becoming less necessary as Node and the major browsers implement ES6.

The whole point of Babel is to be a stopgap, so it's not surprising that its usage is declining. Babel is not a language.

Re: TypeScript Won

#58

Post by spion »

lmm wrote: post #13
koolba wrote: post #2

Does anyone here have bad things to say about TypeScript? I haven't used it for any large projects yet (couple toy ones) but seems pretty legit. Based on my anecdata, people who have used it at scale seems to like it. I can't tell if that's because they're still in the honeymoon phase or if it really is a step forward for the long term.

Structural is worse than nominal. The types are unsound even without "any" because arrays are bivariant. There are no HKTs.

Structural is not worse than nominal. Nominal types are mostly a lie, and in the case of JS and package managers / module systems like npm / node's, they are a non-starter.

Arrays are no longer bivariant, and haven't been for at least a year. They are still covariant unfortunately.

Re: TypeScript Won

#59

Post by maaaats »

thejameskyle wrote: post #49

It's frustrating that the only reason thats really given for TypeScript being "better" than Babel is that it has more downloads, using incorrect charts to prove it. Here's the actual download charts if you are interested: https://twitter.com/thejameskyle/status/725344218411986946 Source: - babel-core: http://npm-stat.com/charts.html?package=babel-core&author=&f... - typescript: http://npm-stat.com/charts.html?package…

> Also if you want types with Babel, use Flow– which is arguably a much better type system anyways.

Why? Besides, kinda ironic you point out the lack of reasoning in the article, then making a bold claim on your own providing no arguments.

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