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Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

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Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#31

Post by [deleted] »

bcook wrote: post #30
brandelune wrote: post #26

The author is stupid. "How about free-market policies? Here the story is more ambiguous, but I still see this as a minor factor at most." Because of such neoliberal policies, 40% of the work force is now on irregular lowest wage jobs with no job security whatsoever, no medical coverage/pension at all. Neoliberal policies of the last 2 decades are destroying what boosted Japan prosperity and stability. The author live…

If you removed "The author is stupid." from your post, I (and other "adults", assumedly) would be much more receptive to the rest of your post. (If you remove that line, I'll delete this post.)

[deleted]

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#32

Post by mikekchar »

GreaterFool wrote: post #10

"The survey compared the incomes of the bottom 10 percent of households with children to the average income of 41 countries who are members of the OECD or the European Union. The income gap in Japan was found to be 60.21 percent, meaning the household income of the nation’s most underprivileged families with children was less than 40 percent of the average." I'm not sure how to read this. Income gap be damned, what i…

¥900,000 is almost exactly what I spent on average over a 5 year period from 2007-2012 living in rural Japan (Shizuoka prefecture). A couple of caveats: I was single at the time. I had subsidized housing (worth about ¥250,000 yen a year). I didn't have a car. That was the money I spent, and I made considerably more than that so was able to save quite a lot. However, I was very comfortable with that level of expenditure and I can't think of anything basic that I lacked.

I think you would have to budget fairly tightly and it would be pretty easy to get into trouble. Especially in the north where you have to pay for heating it might be dicey. But it's not impossible to live relatively comfortably. I ate out a lot and drank expensive beer a lot. If I cooked more at home, ate more fish and drank shochu I could have saved more money. Getting rid of the TV (and thus the monthly NHK bill) would be fairly substantial.

I have a lot of single friends in the area who make ~¥2,000,000 a year and they are absolutely fine on that salary. It's a different lifestyle from what people in the west are used to, but I wouldn't say they are less happy.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#33

Post by adrianN »

mikekchar wrote: post #32
GreaterFool wrote: post #10

"The survey compared the incomes of the bottom 10 percent of households with children to the average income of 41 countries who are members of the OECD or the European Union. The income gap in Japan was found to be 60.21 percent, meaning the household income of the nation’s most underprivileged families with children was less than 40 percent of the average." I'm not sure how to read this. Income gap be damned, what i…

¥900,000 is almost exactly what I spent on average over a 5 year period from 2007-2012 living in rural Japan (Shizuoka prefecture). A couple of caveats: I was single at the time. I had subsidized housing (worth about ¥250,000 yen a year). I didn't have a car. That was the money I spent , and I made considerably more than that so was able to save quite a lot. However, I was very comfortable with that level of expendit…

What job did you have during that time? Living in rural Japan sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#34

Post by bcook »

taneq wrote: post #8

It's interesting that the author equates "Japan has very high labor force participation and low unemployment." with "No laziness or idleness here." The Japanese workplace culture of the 'sarariman' who spends 14+ hours a day in the office, achieving almost nothing, is legendary.

(Edit: I replied to the wrong poster or some similar mistake.) Disregard

How can you argue against the author's immeasureable words/phrases like "very high", "low", "laziness", or "idleness", especially considering that you are relying on anecdotal evidence yourself?

I have seen a bunch of tall trees Georgia, but my friend from California says they are small; which of us is correct?

Who cares when the answer yields no useful, quantifiable information...

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#35

Post by raverbashing »

brandelune wrote: post #26

The author is stupid. "How about free-market policies? Here the story is more ambiguous, but I still see this as a minor factor at most." Because of such neoliberal policies, 40% of the work force is now on irregular lowest wage jobs with no job security whatsoever, no medical coverage/pension at all. Neoliberal policies of the last 2 decades are destroying what boosted Japan prosperity and stability. The author live…

I'm so glad we can take whatever you say at face value with no references whatsoever (not surprising, because most of the wining about neoliberalism does not hold water) and the author is stupid because doesn't agree with you

You should move to Venezuela, they're shunning neoliberalism (and also basic necessities like food and electricity)

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#36

Post by thaumasiotes »

brandelune wrote: post #26

The author is stupid. "How about free-market policies? Here the story is more ambiguous, but I still see this as a minor factor at most." Because of such neoliberal policies, 40% of the work force is now on irregular lowest wage jobs with no job security whatsoever, no medical coverage/pension at all. Neoliberal policies of the last 2 decades are destroying what boosted Japan prosperity and stability. The author live…

> The author lives in a dream world where Japan has always been a country with low criminality, obedient citizen etc. But that is only the product of the after-war and the massive US investments to make Japan the first barrier against Asian communism.

The author is correct about this. Check out criminality in communist China and Vietnam. Check out criminality in American Japanese who left Japan prior to WWII.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#37

Post by thaumasiotes »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #12

Basically there are two definitions of poverty with two crowds of followers. 1. People are poor if they can't afford (basic) things. People are very poor if they go hungry to bed. 2. People are poor if they earn less [1] than the average (not median) household. From the article "The report looked at the gap between the income of the poorest Japanese families with children and the average household income." When does…

> People are poor if they earn less than the average (not median) household. From the article "The report looked at the gap between the income of the poorest Japanese families with children and the average household income."

And I thought the US move to define the poverty line as the 40th percentile of income (or something lower; I don't remember this too well) was absurd. The average household income is, by necessity, well above the 50th percentile everywhere. There is no one seriously advocating that over 50% of every country's population is living in poverty.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#38

Post by archagon »

mikekchar wrote: post #32
GreaterFool wrote: post #10

"The survey compared the incomes of the bottom 10 percent of households with children to the average income of 41 countries who are members of the OECD or the European Union. The income gap in Japan was found to be 60.21 percent, meaning the household income of the nation’s most underprivileged families with children was less than 40 percent of the average." I'm not sure how to read this. Income gap be damned, what i…

¥900,000 is almost exactly what I spent on average over a 5 year period from 2007-2012 living in rural Japan (Shizuoka prefecture). A couple of caveats: I was single at the time. I had subsidized housing (worth about ¥250,000 yen a year). I didn't have a car. That was the money I spent , and I made considerably more than that so was able to save quite a lot. However, I was very comfortable with that level of expendit…

Out of curiosity, are there any such rural areas with an expat presence?

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#39

Post by pja »

adrianN wrote: post #20
GreaterFool wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly true. You'll see a weird mechanical contraption shaped like a person waving the stick. After living in a number of countries where construction works usually involve two or three people making loud mess for days I'm astonished how things work in Japan: a team of people shows up quietly, does the job efficiently and then disappears. You won't even notice them. There's a big-ish construction (they have heav…

I saw both, men and machines waving glowing sticks. There is also usually a guy who makes sure that no pedestrians are endangered by construction driveways. I'm not sure whether I'd call these jobs "useless" though. Sure, putting up warning signs would probably produce a similar safety level with lower costs, but somehow I feel better cared for if a human does the job.

Often construction entrances need a banksman to help delivery lorries reverse out safely & manage the traffice on the road to make space. That’s not something you can really automate at the moment & in the grand scheme of things not running over unfortunate pedestrians / reversing into things on the road is probably a net economic benefit :)

(Which is not to say that a lot of these jobs decribed up-thread aren’t make-work, but this particular one probably isn’t.)

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#40

Post by adrianN »

raverbashing wrote: post #4

10 yrs of recession, or is it 20 yrs already? Failure to compete in high-tech areas (when was the last time you got a mobile phone made in Japan) Which is funny because Japan was very strong in the modern days of computing and videogames. What happened? My guess is that software got more complex and their vertical way of working is not productive for the complexity expected today

GDP per capita hasn't changed all that much since the late 90's. I wouldn't call that a recession.
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