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MakerBot Is Outsourcing Its Brooklyn Manufacturing Jobs to China

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Re: MakerBot Is Outsourcing Its Brooklyn Manufacturing Jobs to China

#31

Post by drivingmenuts »

sbarre wrote: post #5
dammitcoetzee wrote: post #3

Of course they are. It's been lies and flim flam for a while. Worst printers on the market, just look at the reviews. They had US manufacturing going for them, but I guess even that much of their previous reputation, honor, and pride was too much to hold on to.

So what would you say is the best 3D printer on the market right now?

I've been researching that for a couple of weeks, trying to find the right (pre-assembled) printer. Frankly, there's not a ton of difference in specs.

I wound up having to make my decision on 1) price, 2) what I felt I could look at for a while, considering the cost, and 3) whether or not it seemed like a company that would survive a while.

Prices for the same level of capability between brands vary wildly - there are printers out there that perform on paper just as well as a Makerbot and cost easily half as much. It's almost like they just tote up the cost of mfg and then make up a number to add to it.

Wound up buying a Cel-Robox for $1200 ($1600 after supplies and tax, etc.). We'll see how this turns out.

I might be swimming in filament for a while.

Re: MakerBot Is Outsourcing Its Brooklyn Manufacturing Jobs to China

#32

Post by calbear81 »

Vivtek wrote: post #23
talmand wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wonder if costs could be lowered for many of these companies if they would stop locating in some of the country's most expensive places to operate and for their employees to live. I know the arguments about workforce availability and all that, but I've never seen a proper look into it.

Yeah. MakerBot could easily move to Indianapolis, after all. Or even less expensive locations elsewhere in Indiana, for that matter. Brooklyn is one of the most expensive markets in the United States, yet Indiana has just as many qualified technical people. Perhaps more, to be honest. Purdue is a pretty fantastic engineering school.

Probably could make the same case for Detroit, get access to UofM students, plenty of large warehouse space, long history of manufacturing, dirt cheap houses, and of course... exiles that were priced out of Brooklyn.

Re: MakerBot Is Outsourcing Its Brooklyn Manufacturing Jobs to China

#33

Post by loucal »

bardworx wrote: post #29
talmand wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wonder if costs could be lowered for many of these companies if they would stop locating in some of the country's most expensive places to operate and for their employees to live. I know the arguments about workforce availability and all that, but I've never seen a proper look into it.

Makerbot Studio is in Industry City, where rent isn't exactly "expensive".[0] Rent (for employees) is also very accessible in the nearby area, nothing close to Manhattan or some swanky neighborhood in BK. (I live nearby) In my opinion, especially in technology, its just hard to operate at scale and not produce products in China. Not only is their labor force less expensive but the parts that you require are manufactu…

I was about to post this but you beat me to it, for context when people picture "brooklyn rent" they think williamsburg which according to trulia has a $3525 avg rent (http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Williamsburg-Brooklyn/5274...) as opposed to sunset park (the neighborhood which industry city lies) which it has at $1700, less than half. (http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Sunset_Park-Brooklyn/5246/)

Re: MakerBot Is Outsourcing Its Brooklyn Manufacturing Jobs to China

#34

Post by mbostleman »

talmand wrote: post #17
legitster wrote: post #15

A lot of people wonder why large companies can't just stay in the US and compete on quality, and here is a great case for why. It doesn't matter how great your workers are, you can't sell a product for $3,000 when others are selling it for $600. Especially when it's a technology still in development. And I know we pay extra for the warm and fuzzies knowing that something is made in the states, but I'm sure the home t…

I often wonder if costs could be lowered for many of these companies if they would stop locating in some of the country's most expensive places to operate and for their employees to live. I know the arguments about workforce availability and all that, but I've never seen a proper look into it.

You don't have to locate in some of the country's most expensive places to operate, but you'll still be located in one of the world's most expensive countries to operate.

Re: MakerBot Is Outsourcing Its Brooklyn Manufacturing Jobs to China

#35

Post by michaelbuddy »

Makerbot is in a tough spot. They lost points with people when they announced closing off of some of their work vs remaining open source. And so customers thought they might (if they are paying premium for consumer level printing anyway) to go with Ultimaker which retained premium build quality and remained open. And month after month, other companies keep bringing printers out to compete.

Microcenter is carrying Makerbot but also much lower priced generic 3D printers I think which are house branded. Dremel has a very nice 3D printer for a lot less than Makerbot and apparently has pretty good tech support too.

In regards to competing with China though, it's important to know that the products from China are artificially low and that seems to benefit us but it also means that so many of us are out of work or under employed. But if you straighten out trade balance and currency manipulation Chinese products become more expensive as they naturally should be, local U.S. goods become more accessible and less expensive to a degree and and we have more people with more buying power (because employment) to make the economy work.

Re: MakerBot Is Outsourcing Its Brooklyn Manufacturing Jobs to China

#36

Post by abakker »

akshayB wrote: post #8

3D printing is a great technology but this is just sad, more jobs leaving to China.

So, the jobs that leave the US go to China, but maybe the company can increase sales/invest more because they have better economics, and then grow, and then hire more people. Its only a net loss in the short term, not necessarily forever.

Re: MakerBot Is Outsourcing Its Brooklyn Manufacturing Jobs to China

#38

Post by deepnet »

bradyd wrote: post #20
deepnet wrote: post #9

Caveat Emptor. If you can't fork you aren't free. The Makerbot rose up from a spirit of sharing and community goodwill, made money and employed local Brooklyites - so it was a flagship for the sharing economy and open hardware. Now there is an impression that they closed it off. Make4rbot was bought by the holder of a patent for the sintering 3D printing technology, seen as an impediment to this useful methods commun…

GPL doesn't even protect against this kind of situation. The copyright holder is not bound by the GPL license, they are the one licensing it. Anything release under the GPL is still available as GPL, but the copyright holder has no obligation to release future changes under the GPL. They can instead have a proprietary license. Things can get a little more muddied with community contributions as the contributor owns t…

Extrusion 3D printers derive from the research of the RepRap project, by Bowyer of Bath University, it is GPL.

The MakerBot derives from this GPLed work - the first MakerBot parts were printed by a RepRap.

This is a RepRap tradition that a RepRap print the parts for new RepRaps, a ceremonial self replication.

So the MakerBot's intellectual property is not wholly their own and in fact is derives from a GPL licensed work.

Is this a GPL violation or did MakerBot relicense the RepRap from Bath ?

Perhaps the MakerBot is a 'clean room' redesign of the RepRap, but Pettis, MakerBot's founder was involved from the beginning and built RepRaps and the the MakerBot designs evolution (and initial part printing) from the RepRap is well documented by Make magazine.

MakerBots not being GPL licensed seems like a GPL violation but IANAL.

Re: MakerBot Is Outsourcing Its Brooklyn Manufacturing Jobs to China

#40

Post by drzaiusapelord »

legitster wrote: post #15

A lot of people wonder why large companies can't just stay in the US and compete on quality, and here is a great case for why. It doesn't matter how great your workers are, you can't sell a product for $3,000 when others are selling it for $600. Especially when it's a technology still in development. And I know we pay extra for the warm and fuzzies knowing that something is made in the states, but I'm sure the home t…

There's a great amount of manufacturing in the US. In fact, the US is the world's second largest manfacturer.

The reality is you can't open a manufacturing shop in a hip and gentrified urban neighborhood for "cool points" and expect to keep costs down. You want factories in poorer rural areas, not a place where the media home sale price is close to $700,000.

The China or bust mentality serves big business, but the reality is that you can do domestic manufacturing at a decent cost if you desired it.

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