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Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

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Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#271

Post by stephenr »

TheLogothete wrote: post #268
stephenr wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The webmaster has to explicitly permit data sharing with google. Abusive to users . Google's whole reason for offering free analytics is to build better advertising profiles. > Additionally the webmaster can chose to not send IP info to google, I must have missed the memo where Google invented a way to make HTTP connections with no client IP.

This has gone full circle and honestly is quite irritating at this point. People say that Google uses GA data for advertising, I say that this is not the case and then you just chose to ignore that. So I'm just gonna ask directly - can you show some evidence suggesting Google uses GA data for building advertising profiles or did you pull this opinion out of your ass? Because as someone who analyses marketing and adve…

> Because as someone who analyses marketing and advertising data, I can tell you that I strongly believe they do not use GA data in this way.

You can choose to believe that, and I can believe that a huge company funded almost entirely by placing highly targeted adverts on third-party websites across the web has a vested interest in data collection.

> THE WEBMASTER CAN CHOSE TO NOT SHARE IT WITH THEM.

Calm your tits. No one is claiming that Google hijacks other people's websites to inject GA tracking codes.

The point is that saying "(webmaster) chose not to share visitor IP addresses" ignores a key point: GA relies on the client loading javascript from a GA domain. That means GA has a client IP for the user-agent (i.e. browser) making the call. That isn't an opinion, its just how IP networking works.

Edit: Because someone else in this thread referenced some very relevant parts of Google's terms/policies:

"We use the information we collect from all of our services to provide, maintain, protect and improve them, to develop new ones, and to protect Google and our users. We also use this information to offer you tailored content – like giving you more relevant search results and ads."

https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/privacy/

"When you visit a website that uses our advertising products (like AdSense), social products (like the +1 button) or analytics tools (Google Analytics), your web browser automatically sends certain information to Google... When you visit websites or use apps that use Google technologies, we may use the information we receive from those websites and apps..."

https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/partners/

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#272

Post by throwanem »

Touche wrote: post #88
estel wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > Just your universally unique id How is a Homebrew UUID personal info?

They send more than that, have you checked out the code? Every time you do an install Google gets to know about it: https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/blob/acc9a7ca8554bc2413dee2... Maybe this is sufficiently private, maybe not. I'm not a security expert. Maybe GA's fingerprinting heuristics are advanced enough to know that because user 1034324234 installed spacemacs at 4:01 and I visited the spacemacs documentation at…

Ads which you'll no doubt block anyway. Not seeing the issue here.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#273

Post by tremon »

cat-dev-null wrote: post #261
speeder wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like in Brazil, where there are real cases of people convicted of murdering donors to sell their organs to rich people?

Third-world country edge-cases. Murder is still murder. The preponderance of donations in first-world countries saves lives, but is so rarely done despite the pressing demand. When you or family member needs a life-saving transplant, which system would you want?

The one where the organ was freely and explicitly offered, not harvested from a person who might have mistakenly believed their body would still be theirs in death.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#274

Post by sirn »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #255
tsujamin wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was prompted with a warning during my most recent brew update...

I brew updated a few times today and finally got that message. By the time that message showed up, the file ~/.homebrew_analytics_user_uuid was already 4 hours old, which makes me wonder when they actually started doing the analytics

I updated Homebrew almost daily and my .homebrew_analytics_user_uuid shown that it was created on Apr 24[1], which means I have been sending the analytics data without knowing for two days already (UTC+7) :-\

[1]: https://files.grid.in.th/plBnTi.png

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#275

Post by TheLogothete »

stephenr wrote: post #271
TheLogothete wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has gone full circle and honestly is quite irritating at this point. People say that Google uses GA data for advertising, I say that this is not the case and then you just chose to ignore that. So I'm just gonna ask directly - can you show some evidence suggesting Google uses GA data for building advertising profiles or did you pull this opinion out of your ass? Because as someone who analyses marketing and adve…

> Because as someone who analyses marketing and advertising data, I can tell you that I strongly believe they do not use GA data in this way. You can choose to believe that, and I can believe that a huge company funded almost entirely by placing highly targeted adverts on third-party websites across the web has a vested interest in data collection. > THE WEBMASTER CAN CHOSE TO NOT SHARE IT WITH THEM. Calm your tits.…

Except that my opinion is formed based on logic and my expertise and your opinion is based on... what exactly?

>That means GA has a client IP for the user-agent

When IP masking is enabled, Analytics removes the last octet of the user's IP address prior to its use and storage.

SO... yeah.

And I just LOVE how you selectively quote, so I'm gonna finish the quote for you:

"It should be noted this does not directly contradict what GP claims."

It is not shameful to be wrong. It is shameful when you can't admit that you are wrong. And especially when you can't admit it even to yourself.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#276

Post by shrikant »

fit2rule wrote: post #249
atm0sphere wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pls go ahead and read the first response: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/117467/how-to-perman...

This is a very single-user-centric view. Some of us have Macs with many hundreds of users. And so .. It is too invasive of my .bashrc/.profile that I have to use it to disable spy activity. I'd rather brew just have its own flag somewhere that says "Don't ever send analytics, ever, for any user on this system.."

Maybe put it in /etc/bashrc ?

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#277

Post by tremon »

TheLogothete wrote: post #268
stephenr wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The webmaster has to explicitly permit data sharing with google. Abusive to users . Google's whole reason for offering free analytics is to build better advertising profiles. > Additionally the webmaster can chose to not send IP info to google, I must have missed the memo where Google invented a way to make HTTP connections with no client IP.

This has gone full circle and honestly is quite irritating at this point. People say that Google uses GA data for advertising, I say that this is not the case and then you just chose to ignore that. So I'm just gonna ask directly - can you show some evidence suggesting Google uses GA data for building advertising profiles or did you pull this opinion out of your ass? Because as someone who analyses marketing and adve…

THE WEBMASTER CAN CHOSE TO NOT SHARE IT WITH THEM

No they can't, unless that choice means that the data never arrives at Google's servers.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#278

Post by TheLogothete »

tremon wrote: post #277
TheLogothete wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has gone full circle and honestly is quite irritating at this point. People say that Google uses GA data for advertising, I say that this is not the case and then you just chose to ignore that. So I'm just gonna ask directly - can you show some evidence suggesting Google uses GA data for building advertising profiles or did you pull this opinion out of your ass? Because as someone who analyses marketing and adve…

THE WEBMASTER CAN CHOSE TO NOT SHARE IT WITH THEM No they can't, unless that choice means that the data never arrives at Google's servers.

Of course they can. When you sign up for GA, you get asked

Do you want to share data with google to improve our products?

Do you want to pool aggregated data for benchmarking?

Both are unchecked by default.

Or do you think that google will access the data without permission? In which case, what do you base your opinion on?

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#279

Post by stephenr »

TheLogothete wrote: post #275
stephenr wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because as someone who analyses marketing and advertising data, I can tell you that I strongly believe they do not use GA data in this way. You can choose to believe that, and I can believe that a huge company funded almost entirely by placing highly targeted adverts on third-party websites across the web has a vested interest in data collection. > THE WEBMASTER CAN CHOSE TO NOT SHARE IT WITH THEM. Calm your tits.…

Except that my opinion is formed based on logic and my expertise and your opinion is based on... what exactly? >That means GA has a client IP for the user-agent When IP masking is enabled, Analytics removes the last octet of the user's IP address prior to its use and storage. SO... yeah. And I just LOVE how you selectively quote, so I'm gonna finish the quote for you: "It should be noted this does not directly contra…

> Except that my opinion is formed based on logic and my expertise and your opinion is based on... what exactly?

The exact words from Google own privacy policy, and the fundamentals of how IP networking works?

> It should be noted this does not directly contradict what GP claims

I disagree with that interpretation. They specifically say that they use data collected:

"We also use this information to offer you tailored content – like giving you more relevant search results and ads."

When IP masking is enabled, Analytics removes the last octet of the user's IP address prior to its use and storage. SO... yeah.

So that broadens the data to at-most, a 1 in 254 match based on IP address, taking User Agent strings and other browser information (plugins installed, window size, etc) I'd bet $100 they can still pinpoint a single device based on a 'masked' entry from GA data.

> It is not shameful to be wrong. It is shameful when you can't admit that you are wrong. And especially when you can't admit it even to yourself.

An opinion cannot be wrong. It's logically impossible. An opinion can be based on incorrect assumptions or incorrect knowledge, but an opinion in and of itself cannot be wrong.

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