Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)

chronicle.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 229 posts

Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)

#41

Post by peteretep »

cperciva wrote: post #22

We live under laws on sexual assault that, in large part, were not written with women’s interests in mind. [...] The legal verdict on whether sex is nonconsensual still often rests on the perspective of the alleged perpetrator rather than the experience of the victim. It would be contrary to the principles of fundamental justice to imprison someone who has done nothing wrong. If the alleged perpetrator of an offence…

    > It would be contrary to the principles of fundamental
    > justice ... then any lack of consent is a tragic
    > mistake, not a criminal offence
There's a reason jurisprudence is a doctorate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_liability_%28criminal%2...

Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)

#42

Post by Sevrene »

FreeInternet wrote: post #21
Sevrene wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but you are aware your comment looks like propaganda as well, right?

https://www.google.com/search?q=define+propaganda&ie=utf-8&o... > information, especially of a biased or misleading nature Which part of my information is misleading?

I didn't read all of your article, I didn't have to read it to see that your comment looks like propaganda; new user, highly politicised comments, abrasive attitude to questions, comments with very similar content, etc.

I don't really know if your comment is propaganda — I don't really care, actually. It's probably not. But we must be suspicious of suspicious acting narrators trying to lead conversations on sites like reddit and hacker news, no?

Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)

#43

Post by Sevrene »

smegel wrote: post #34
lmm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is the justice system's whole job, and they've gotten pretty ok at it.

> and they've gotten pretty ok at it By that do you mean "pretty mediocre" or "pretty good"?

If I was being charged with something and they offered the 'pretty mediocre' option for determining guilt vs the 'believe the victim' option, I know which I'd take.

The system isn't great, but it's the best we've got, sadly.

Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)

#44

Post by ZeroGravitas »

danieltillett wrote: post #37
chris_wot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though it's much rarer, it is possible for a woman to rape a man.

It is not that rare when using the current standard of consent. If you include any man who has sex while drunk (and is hence incapable of giving consent) then rape of men by women is very common.

Can you define drunk as you intend it in this sentence?

People seem to be very loose with this phrase recently and it's impossible to tell if they're doing so intentionally for political reasons, or if they're just not very good at communicating what they mean.

Drunk can mean someone has had 1 beer (e.g. drunk driving in many locations). It can also mean aggressively or flamboyantly out-of-character after several drinks, or it can mean basically incapacitated and in danger of choking on their own vomit.

Which part of this range were you ambigously referring to?

Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)

#45

Post by tomp »

vlehto wrote: post #18
lmm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is the justice system's whole job, and they've gotten pretty ok at it.

In rape cases about 1,5% proven guilty, about 1% proven false. But I guess ~97% failure rate can be considered OK in such situation?

Given that it's literally one person's statement vs. the other person's statement, anything > 0% of proven cases is a win.

Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)

#46

Post by cperciva »

wildmusings wrote: post #31
deciplex wrote: post #11

It wasn't long ago that I would have agreed with this article in full. I may have even posted here on HN to that effect before. I am still sympathetic to the point it makes. However: Universities boot people out for other reasons which are not actionable in a criminal (or even civil) court all the time . Getting shitty grades, being a disruptive asshole in a class on a regular basis, and so on, can end your universit…

> These tribunals are too often full of shit. There are a few horror stories going around and you've probably read a few. Some places I think are not requiring a high enough burden of proof. The regulations and standards at the federal and state levels ought to be improved, and in light of the fact that sexual violence on campuses is on the decline, the improvements should result in fewer students being expelled, not…

the contents of the proceedings could prejudice the result of a subsequent criminal trial.

To the extent that universities coerce testimony from their students, shouldn't it be inadmissible in court?

Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)

#47

Post by cperciva »

peteretep wrote: post #41
cperciva wrote: post #22

We live under laws on sexual assault that, in large part, were not written with women’s interests in mind. [...] The legal verdict on whether sex is nonconsensual still often rests on the perspective of the alleged perpetrator rather than the experience of the victim. It would be contrary to the principles of fundamental justice to imprison someone who has done nothing wrong. If the alleged perpetrator of an offence…

> It would be contrary to the principles of fundamental > justice ... then any lack of consent is a tragic > mistake, not a criminal offence There's a reason jurisprudence is a doctorate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_liability_%28criminal%2...

There's a reason jurisprudence is a doctorate:

Yes, there is:

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1985/1985canlii81/1985ca...

Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)

#48

Post by mc32 »

prdonahue wrote: post #35
mc32 wrote: post #13

Should more of the disciplinary action [involving criminal activity] be moved from the purview of colleges to the courts? I can see this making sense not only for cases of allegations of rape but also allegations of censorship, bias, underage drinking, etc. Sometimes colleges exercise a little too much discretion in adjudication. On the other hand, if we move not only grievous allegations but other less grave cases t…

Yes, because what we really need right now is the courts bogged down deciding whether Johnny Fratboy cribbed a few too many quotes without properly citing them.

I've amended the comment to refer to criminal accusations --which is what I mean to specify.

Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)

#50

Post by FreeInternet »

Sevrene wrote: post #42
FreeInternet wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.google.com/search?q=define+propaganda&ie=utf-8&o... > information, especially of a biased or misleading nature Which part of my information is misleading?

I didn't read all of your article, I didn't have to read it to see that your comment looks like propaganda; new user, highly politicised comments, abrasive attitude to questions, comments with very similar content, etc. I don't really know if your comment is propaganda — I don't really care, actually. It's probably not. But we must be suspicious of suspicious acting narrators trying to lead conversations on sites lik…

no, we must do our research and not form quick judgements. No excuse to not read all the article. If you don't have time to learn, please save time by not speaking.
Post reply on HN