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The Epic Rise of John D. Rockefeller

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Re: The Epic Rise of John D. Rockefeller

#71

Post by dredmorbius »

aerovistae wrote: post #61
coderholic wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Version that's possible to read: "Rockefeller was relentless in ferreting out ways to cut costs. During an inspection tour of a Standard Oil plant in New York City, for instance, he observed a machine that soldered the lids on five-gallon cans of kerosene destined for export. Upon learning that each lid was sealed with 40 drops of solder, he asked, "Have you ever tried 38?" It turned out that when 38 drops were appli…

What, don't you like monospace fonts??

On mobile, your version simply scrolls off the page with no option for reading it. Worse than useless, actually.

Re: The Epic Rise of John D. Rockefeller

#73

Post by ci5er »

allisthemoist wrote: post #41
ncd wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to the other comments, I would also note that it's untrue that Rockefeller started doing philanthropic work as "atonement" for his business practices. Even as a young man just getting his start as a bookkeeper at a small merchant, he gave a significant portion of his then-meager pay to charity. He was a complicated man, no doubt, and he tended to gloss over some of the consequences of his actions when rec…

I imagine this complexity comes from his combination of economic and religious values. Interestingly, it was not uncommon for Protestants to have this kind of dilemma - they were encouraged to work very hard (see "The Protestant Work Ethic") for having success in life was the only indication that one was in god's favour. However, it was forbidden to actually spend one's earnings on selfish pursuits thus many Protesta…

On top of that, his father was a philandering, alcoholic, gambling bigamist that left he and his mother when he was quite young. He strove all his life to not be "that guy".

Re: The Epic Rise of John D. Rockefeller

#74

Post by rpgmaker »

travmatt wrote: post #51
dharmon wrote: post #2

If this short bio is interesting, you may enjoy the much more in-depth biography, _Titan_, by Ron Chernow. In addition to an incredibly thorough (and even-handed, IMO) treatment of Rockefeller, I found it an interesting perspective on the post-war period in the US.

That book was invalualable for exactly those two reasons: the evenhanded portrait of a very complex individual, and a detailed portrait of the world in which he lived and knew. That book started me on a long tear of other biographies of large individuals in American history, specifically from Reconstruction through the Vietnam War. I'm currently working through Robert Caro's multipart series on Lyndon Johnson, anothe…

I wonder if I will ever get to read Caro's LBJ books. They've been on my to-reads for ages.

Re: The Epic Rise of John D. Rockefeller

#75

Post by WalterBright »

gnaritas wrote: post #70
WalterBright wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every device I buy comes bundled with a free browser, along with a long laundry list of other bundled utilities. The idea that a browser is somehow special doesn't stand up, and special if it comes with Windows even less so. Linux also comes with tons of free software that is hard to compete with. I know for a fact that Netscape was an inferior product to IE. I downloaded IE and uninstalled Netscape. I made an extra…

The quality of Netscape's product is not relevant. It is only relevant that Microsoft used anti-competitive practices to try and put them out of business. As you can't seem to tell the difference, there is little point in conversing.

Of course it is relevant. It is perfectly adequate to explain the demise of Netscape. Microsoft didn't make Netscape crash, Netscape did.

Ironically, I use Chrome now because IE crashes constantly when accessing github.com.

I presume you mean the "anti-competitive practice" of including it with Windows. Windows is full of utilities that come with it, ditto with every other operating system before or since. Why is a browser special? Why are other companies entitled to not have competition from Microsoft? What do you make of Linux coming bundled with huge swaths of quality free software?

> As you can't seem to tell the difference

You're quite right :-)

Re: The Epic Rise of John D. Rockefeller

#76

Post by Retra »

WalterBright wrote: post #12
neaanopri wrote: post #9

It's shocking that they present this story as a tale of virtue. If being an entrepreneur is a noble calling, then we should be ashamed of Rockerfeller for his ruthless tactics, not praising him for it. If we want to praise capitalists and capitalism, then we should be villifying Rockerfeller for his monopolistic tactics. He was too clever by half as a CEO, since his tactics eventually brought down the ire of the gove…

> horrific business practices I recommend that you read "Titan" by Chernow. Rockefeller is mostly guilty simply of being very rich. During his career, he caused the price of kerosene to drop 70%, and stay down. This was good for the expanding country. During the anti-trust trial, Rockefeller was steadily losing market share to nimbler, aggressive competitors. There was no need for the government to break it up, it wa…

Rockefeller might have done some good with his wealth, but he was neither obligated to do so, nor was it inevitable that he do so.

Re: The Epic Rise of John D. Rockefeller

#77

Post by culturestate »

akkartik wrote: post #59
abtinf wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire history of economics backs this up. The only instances of long-lasting monopolies are the result of government coercion. The instability of large, profitable businesses has both a solid theoretical foundation and an unending abundance of empirical data. If you ever think you have found a single instance of monopoly lasting any significant length of time, look deeper - with absolute certainty there is a gov…

"If you ever think you have found a single instance of monopoly lasting any significant length of time, look deeper - with absolute certainty there is a government gun backing it up." But that caveat lets the horse out of the barn, since the gains made by monopolies can purchase lobbyists and thence the government gun. Disney Studios has been around 93 years at this point.

What, precisely, does Disney have a monopoly on? Last I checked there were at least several major movie studios, TV stations, and animation houses doing very well for themselves independently of the mouse.

Re: The Epic Rise of John D. Rockefeller

#78

Post by rangibaby »

guelo wrote: post #53
WalterBright wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without the antitrust lawsuit Microsoft would have been able to kill off Apple and Netscape in the 90s and kept the web bottled up within Internet Explorer in the 00s. I used Netscape in the 90s. It was a crummy product that crashed if you looked at it. IE was much more stable. IE was better, much better. Opera was also available, but there wasn't much to recommend it. As for Apple in the 90s, Apple nearly destroye…

Imagine if iPods hadn't been allowed to connect to iTunes on Windows, Apple probably would not have survived.

It's still amazing to me how huge iPods were about ~10 years ago, considering that they are basically museum pieces now. They gave Apple credibility with people outside of 90s Apple fan(atics). The ads with silhouettes of people dancing were Apple's best in my memory.

Re: The Epic Rise of John D. Rockefeller

#79

Post by akkartik »

culturestate wrote: post #77
akkartik wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you ever think you have found a single instance of monopoly lasting any significant length of time, look deeper - with absolute certainty there is a government gun backing it up." But that caveat lets the horse out of the barn, since the gains made by monopolies can purchase lobbyists and thence the government gun. Disney Studios has been around 93 years at this point.

What, precisely, does Disney have a monopoly on? Last I checked there were at least several major movie studios, TV stations, and animation houses doing very well for themselves independently of the mouse.

Mickey Mouse.

Intellectual property is considered a monopoly assigned by the government.

My example aside, is it really so hard to believe that successful companies can influence regulation? Monopolies are exceptionally successful companies.

Re: The Epic Rise of John D. Rockefeller

#80

Post by cylinder »

WalterBright wrote: post #35
narag wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netscape was best until about version 3. It had some niceties that IE lacked, actually IE was not even acceptable. Netscape 4.7 was "not so nice" and IE 4 was faster so, although terribly unsafe, it dominated market for years. Oh, and by the time Netscape 4.7 and IE 4.01 were released, Microsoft had already destroyed Netscape's business.

I don't remember which Netscape I used, but I started with it. It was awful in the constant crashing. I tried IE, and it crashed too, but only about half as often. If Netscape crashed half as often as Netscape, I would have stuck with it. If you produce an obviously inferior product, it's a bit unfair to blame the competition for your own failures.

Thanks for reminding me of how common crashes and other general frustrations were in personal computing only as recently as the 90s.

Someone who is currently 18 years old never experienced computing when it wasn't near seamless as it is today.

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