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Ask HN: How do you deal with so many project management systems?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with so many project management systems?

#41

Post by tracker1 »

tudorw wrote: post #22
fixie wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taco is free for now, but we expect and hope to charge $5-$10/month at some point - cheap enough be a fantastic value for anyone who uses it even occasionally, but also not a free service that you rightly don't want. We're still figuring out when we should flip the switch but in the meantime, you are right, we need to do a better job of explaining possible future pricing.

So the plan is to generate an initial spike in demand from a group of people marginally interested in something they can get for free, then alienate your core users, who would have been happy to pay from the outset, by introducing a fee, but only once the service is sufficiently overburdened supporting free users ? Well they say any plan is better than no plan... but.... Turn this upside down now, think about 100 use…

+1 on this... I'd say do a 30-day trial period, then around day 25 ask for billing information... If you have tracking/analytics in place you know how many users are returning once signing up, and you have a better indication of conversion after use.

If you're going to have a free tier, I'd say limit it to N service integrations (3-5), but definitely make your core users paying close to the start.

If I had a need for something like this day to day, I'd definitely pay... Actually, I'd suffer for a while, then try it, then suffer again, then pay... but that's me and I'm kind of cheap/frugal. Most people will start paying once they see and feel the value.

Also, it's much easier to field requests from a few hundred paying users than thousands of non-paying ones. It's very hard to do conversion from free after the fact... many businesses have failed, burned, burned out, and left their best (paying) users in a lurch following this model.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with so many project management systems?

#42

Post by mathattack »

This isn't a new problem. I used to have to enter my time in 3 places. Once for the client's corporate system, once for the project-based system, and once for my company's system. As much as we like innovation, this is part of the case for standardization. :-)

The mental model I follow is:

1 - Figure out if you can fight it. If it's a fight you can win, push to standardize. If it's one you can't, don't waste your time.

2 - If you don't fight it, figure out which have data that is really being used, and which people are just going through the motions. For the data that's being used, keep it current and think through the input. For data that's not, don't kill yourself.

3 - Always have your own #s so that you can answer what's really going on.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with so many project management systems?

#43

Post by tracker1 »

One suggestion, and I'm not how hard it is to setup a new account with a real phone number, or moving the number. But setup Google Voice, and use hangouts to manage your text messages. You'll be able to run hangouts on your desktop, and type your text messages, not to mention copy/paste wherever they are needed.

I find that it's really nice to be able to handle texts while I'm working directly on my computer, or wherever I am. Does phone calls as well, if you're using a headset with a mic. Hangouts also does video calls and screen sharing, but nobody else seems to use it much. I actually like it a lot, even though the video quality leaves a lot to be desired.

Edit: been a happy user since it was Grand Central, before the Google buyout.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with so many project management systems?

#45

Post by mtrpcic »

1. As others have said, don't treat the tools provided by your clients as "organizational tools", treat the communication via those tools as a part of the deliverable they are paying for. If they have a convoluted system, ensure you are paid accordingly if it will take you a long time to use it the way they are asking.

2. Use Browser Profiles, and have a differently named user for each client, with different default tabs and authentication states. When you need to work on "Client A", simply click your name in the top-right of Chrome, select "Client A", and a new window will open with all of your important tabs open.

3. Documentation isn't just for code! For each client, keep a dossier of your contacts at the organization, their preferred method of contact, etc. This document can also act as "usage notes" for their internal or provided systems. It's helpful to have a document like this be the default opened tab when hopping into the Browser Profile for a specific client.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with so many project management systems?

#46

Post by SimplGy »

A big text file, with a heading for each day.

In go tasks, troubleshooting attempts, outcomes, links, etc. Then I copy+paste into github issues, commit messages, and wiki articles as needed (part of my deliverables, as @LeifCarrotson puts it).

* No vendor lock-in, no lag, no migration issues.

* Never have duplicate typing because of copy+paste.

* Get a daily history of your work going back into time in a light, portable, ubiquitous format.

* Recover from accidentally hitting the back button while writing a Jira ticket.

* Be able to precisely answer "What did you work on last week" (or last Monday when you logged out of VPN, or anything else)

I have to move the text from my file into the tracking tool(s), and that could be a downside. But I like having a layer of translation there. It lets me select and rephrase snippets that will communicate best in each environment.

Example: https://gist.github.com/SimplGy/a516c54a81fb24f807f9512fed82...

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with so many project management systems?

#47

Post by rwallace »

apercu wrote: post #32

I feel your pain. A few weeks ago I was even asked to track my time in a clients system. First thought was "but I send you invoices with my time in them." Second thought was, "why don't you pay your staff to enter time from my invoices?" Third thought was "I'll have to bill you a stupid hourly rate to enter my time in your system." Right now I'm stuck at the third thought and they've agreed, but I haven't started doi…

I sympathize, but honestly, the fourth thought - that you don't want to do the data entry the client has agreed to pay you for - is a bad thought that you need to evict from your brain ASAP. You should want to do it. It's a good deal - you get paid the same rate for easy work that you would get paid for hard work. We technologists sometimes get bad thoughts in our heads that are variants of the idea that we have the power and responsibility to optimise the entire universe, but in reality of course we have no such thing, and we need to get rid of those thoughts and draw appropriate boundaries.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with so many project management systems?

#48

Post by tudorw »

tracker1 wrote: post #41
tudorw wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the plan is to generate an initial spike in demand from a group of people marginally interested in something they can get for free, then alienate your core users, who would have been happy to pay from the outset, by introducing a fee, but only once the service is sufficiently overburdened supporting free users ? Well they say any plan is better than no plan... but.... Turn this upside down now, think about 100 use…

+1 on this... I'd say do a 30-day trial period, then around day 25 ask for billing information... If you have tracking/analytics in place you know how many users are returning once signing up, and you have a better indication of conversion after use. If you're going to have a free tier, I'd say limit it to N service integrations (3-5), but definitely make your core users paying close to the start. If I had a need for…

+1 for all that although I'd be tempted to get the billing info on sign up and offer a 'throwaway' good deal for the uncertain, so, say $50 a month, or try 10 days for $3

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with so many project management systems?

#49

Post by apercu »

rwallace wrote: post #47
apercu wrote: post #32

I feel your pain. A few weeks ago I was even asked to track my time in a clients system. First thought was "but I send you invoices with my time in them." Second thought was, "why don't you pay your staff to enter time from my invoices?" Third thought was "I'll have to bill you a stupid hourly rate to enter my time in your system." Right now I'm stuck at the third thought and they've agreed, but I haven't started doi…

I sympathize, but honestly, the fourth thought - that you don't want to do the data entry the client has agreed to pay you for - is a bad thought that you need to evict from your brain ASAP. You should want to do it. It's a good deal - you get paid the same rate for easy work that you would get paid for hard work. We technologists sometimes get bad thoughts in our heads that are variants of the idea that we have the…

You're right. I think it's aa timing thing. In June-August or December I'd be happy to get to invoice for simple admin work. But I seem to be slammed Jan-May every year (lots of weekend work, business travel) so it just seems excessive right now.

You are also correct that we want to optimize everything. Sigh.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with so many project management systems?

#50

Post by jkmcf »

SimplGy wrote: post #46

A big text file, with a heading for each day. In go tasks, troubleshooting attempts, outcomes, links, etc. Then I copy+paste into github issues, commit messages, and wiki articles as needed (part of my deliverables, as @LeifCarrotson puts it). * No vendor lock-in, no lag, no migration issues. * Never have duplicate typing because of copy+paste. * Get a daily history of your work going back into time in a light, porta…

I've been doing this in Evernote for years -- one note for each month, and now I've switched to Quiver which provides a somewhat better experience.
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