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Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

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Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#171

Post by pdkl95 »

> generated by uuidgen

So sending a unique tracking number...

> enable us to accurately measure user counts vs. event counts

for the specific purpose of associating events from the same user...

> This does not allow us to track individual users

somehow doesn't accomplish it's stated purpose? The entire point of that UUID is to track individual users.

> The Google Analytics anonymous IP setting is enabled

Sending Google an additional boolean flag doesn't prevent Google from reading the Source Address from the IP header.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#172

Post by codedokode »

It looks like everybody today wants to spy on you. Google, Facebook, and Twitter want to look at your browsing history, NSA wants to see your calls, emails, and messages history. Microsoft wants to know about everything you do at your PC and now even package managers want to have their share of data, too. What about asking my opinion first? Well, as homebrew developer have said

> The problem with opt-in is that you don’t get representative data.

Users do not seem to be enthusiastic about participating when they have a choice so let's go without asking them.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#173

Post by erpellan »

Touche wrote: post #6
LeoPanthera wrote: post #3

Set HOMEBREW_NO_ANALYTICS=1 to opt out. The right thing to do would be to make it opt in, not opt out. (Which would not be without precedent. Debian's popcon is opt-in.)

Disagree. Google Analytics is a network of companies that has agreed to privately collection information about users without their permission or even knowledge. It is malware that should not be included in Homebrew. The only ethical decision we can make as developers is not to use it.

Indeed! Feel free to demand a refund or refer to the contract you signed... Nobody's forcing anyone to use it.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#174

Post by PavlovsCat »

joepie91_ wrote: post #130
TheLogothete wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google does not use GA data unless the webmaster chooses to share it with them. I'm not sure if they use it to improve their ad products, but I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is no.

Firstly, this is a decision that should be up to the user , not the webmaster. Secondly, do you have a source for that? I find that a very dubious claim, from a business perspective.

> this is a decision that should be up to the user, not the webmaster.

This may be a dumb example, but if I get someone (I don't know very well) a glass of water from the kitchen, I won't take a little sip from it on the way. Yes, they might not care, and it's super unlikely that I would infect them with anything. But it's still not my call, and you only need to see someone not get something so basic once to lose a lot of trust in them, certainly if they actually start arguing about it. It's more than optional courtesy, it's a respect for boundaries and personal choices.

And it doesn't matter at all how much they are doing otherwise for you, that is orthogonal. By that I mean: nobody asked anyone to make something for free, we're just asking people to not unwittingly have them feed GA if they don't want to. If there are too many things to fix and too few developers, fix fewer things. It's just homebrew, not cancercure. If enough users disagree with that, let them all opt-in and/or volunteer their own time, problem solved either way.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#175

Post by HappyTypist »

I think it's very reasonable to prompt a message on install saying "Homebrew collects and sends anonymous analytics. Use Homebrew --disable-analytics to opt out" and have that null the analytics identifier. Environment variables aren't that convenient.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#176

Post by dotwtf »

Made me open an HN account just to say this

This is a very bad move and will further erode the already declining trust people put in package managers and software distribution channels. This is not transparency - transparency would be asking for user's explicit consent on the first brew invocation that includes this "feature". If this decision is not publicly reverted I will be removing homebrew altogether as it indicates a severe lapse in judgement, good faith or both on the part of the homebrew team.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#177

Post by codedokode »

pyre wrote: post #97
joosters wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...which is very telling.

Not necessarily. Opting in takes effort, and people aren't really seeing any reward, so they would be less likely to take the effort.

You can make it so that opting in and out takes equal effort.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#178

Post by Touche »

hk__2 wrote: post #157
SoOnThe1Hand wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the project is short-handed, but wants to take on scouring analytics to start packaging common things people are doing with the software. If you're too busy to do this "right" why bother? Are you hoping making more shortcuts will increase adoption? Current employer doesn't much care about these things, but last employer did. Having shared this thread with their IT folks, they've decided to cut people off from home…

As I wrote we’d be very grateful if you had any suggestion.

Have you tried getting donations for the project? Have you tried joining a foundation that supports open source projects (like Apache)?

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#179

Post by Touche »

TheLogothete wrote: post #103
LeoPanthera wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But surely you can see the similarity here. The tracking software wasn't in Homebrew before, is added without asking you when you update, and is completely useless to you as a user but builds information about you and sends it to a third party. If it's not malware, it's certainly really similar to it.

It is used to improve the product, why is this useless to the user?

Software that ships Ask Toolbar in their installer say it's to improve the product as well.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#180

Post by _asummers »

Touche wrote: post #159
khc wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How should this be handled if the software in question is a server daemon? I want the users to make an explicit choice but it's not obvious what's the best way to do that.

On install.

I feel like on update would be better. Answering a yes/no/never isn't that much of an ask, I don't think. And that way you get a chance to use the software before you have to make a decision.
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