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Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

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Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#41

Post by woodman »

wille92 wrote: post #16

I'm all for rooting my phones, media devices, gaming consoles...but I think I'd stop short of rooting my car. I think back to the Toyota electronic throttle control system bugs--we can hardly trust manufacturers to develop robust automotive software on their own, long before rooting and customization are thrown into the mix. The media system modded in this post _should_ be completely separate from the "brains" of the…

> ...we can hardly trust manufacturers to develop robust automotive software on their own...

All the more reason to root the device.

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#42

Post by nekomancer »

orik wrote: post #28
wille92 wrote: post #16

I'm all for rooting my phones, media devices, gaming consoles...but I think I'd stop short of rooting my car. I think back to the Toyota electronic throttle control system bugs--we can hardly trust manufacturers to develop robust automotive software on their own, long before rooting and customization are thrown into the mix. The media system modded in this post _should_ be completely separate from the "brains" of the…

If I recall correctly the part of the system this is running on is independant from anything important and only does media controls. It also speaks to the rest of the car over a network interface. But still not quite for the faint of heart.

There have actually been a ton of examples over the years of researchers hacking into car systems wirelessly, some of which used the media system as the attack vector.

Even if the media subsystem is running on dedicated hardware, the fact that it's networked with the rest of the car means that there's still a risk of it being used to gain access to other components.

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#43

Post by CamperBob2 »

542458 wrote: post #25
wille92 wrote: post #16

I'm all for rooting my phones, media devices, gaming consoles...but I think I'd stop short of rooting my car. I think back to the Toyota electronic throttle control system bugs--we can hardly trust manufacturers to develop robust automotive software on their own, long before rooting and customization are thrown into the mix. The media system modded in this post _should_ be completely separate from the "brains" of the…

I wonder what happens when you get into a bad crash, somebody decides to sue, and it comes out that your car was running modified software. Would you be exposing yourself to any liability?

This always comes up in these threads, but I don't understand how it would be any different from millions of cars running around with modified engines, suspensions, brakes, non-OEM tires and wheels. If it can be shown that your modification contributed to the accident, then liability will be apportioned accordingly. Usually it can't.

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#44

Post by aidos »

wille92 wrote: post #16

I'm all for rooting my phones, media devices, gaming consoles...but I think I'd stop short of rooting my car. I think back to the Toyota electronic throttle control system bugs--we can hardly trust manufacturers to develop robust automotive software on their own, long before rooting and customization are thrown into the mix. The media system modded in this post _should_ be completely separate from the "brains" of the…

OT but what was the deal with the Toyota thing? I read something about this on HN the other day and as far as I can see they were unable to reproduce the bug https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9311_Toyota_vehicle...

Would love to hear more about it from anyone who has more information.

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#45

Post by milesf »

Interesting that some believe rooting a car is going "too far", yet building our entire society and financial systems with duct-tape coding and fail-early-fail-often methodologies is okay.

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#46

Post by milesf »

actionwords wrote: post #10

I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Gentoo, is in fact, GNU/Gentoo, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Gentoo. Gentoo is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many computer users run a mo…

Richard, is that you? ;)

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#47

Post by stagger87 »

aidos wrote: post #44
wille92 wrote: post #16

I'm all for rooting my phones, media devices, gaming consoles...but I think I'd stop short of rooting my car. I think back to the Toyota electronic throttle control system bugs--we can hardly trust manufacturers to develop robust automotive software on their own, long before rooting and customization are thrown into the mix. The media system modded in this post _should_ be completely separate from the "brains" of the…

OT but what was the deal with the Toyota thing? I read something about this on HN the other day and as far as I can see they were unable to reproduce the bug https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9311_Toyota_vehicle... Would love to hear more about it from anyone who has more information.

This was my favorite read,

https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_...

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#48

Post by jokr004 »

nekomancer wrote: post #42
orik wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall correctly the part of the system this is running on is independant from anything important and only does media controls. It also speaks to the rest of the car over a network interface. But still not quite for the faint of heart.

There have actually been a ton of examples over the years of researchers hacking into car systems wirelessly, some of which used the media system as the attack vector. Even if the media subsystem is running on dedicated hardware, the fact that it's networked with the rest of the car means that there's still a risk of it being used to gain access to other components.

>Even if the media subsystem is running on dedicated hardware, the fact that it's networked with the rest of the car means that there's still a risk of it being used to gain access to other components.

I don't think anyone was claiming anything contrary to that, just that replacing the software running the media dash isn't going to fubar your car.

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#49

Post by titomc »

brianwawok wrote: post #20
eliaspro wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a chroot. Thats far less dangerous than completely reflashing it etc

So what happens when your app hits an infinite loop and locks the CPU? Or trashes some memory it shouldn't? Does autopilot still work? Do the airbags still deploy? Does the brake still work?

The one auto manufacturer that I was working for had hardware safety overrides for any software controlled remote operations.

For example: Remote door unlock command issued by the mobile phone app will not work if the car is moving.

Re: Gentoo Tesla – T2 Edition

#50

Post by LeifCarrotson »

aidos wrote: post #44
wille92 wrote: post #16

I'm all for rooting my phones, media devices, gaming consoles...but I think I'd stop short of rooting my car. I think back to the Toyota electronic throttle control system bugs--we can hardly trust manufacturers to develop robust automotive software on their own, long before rooting and customization are thrown into the mix. The media system modded in this post _should_ be completely separate from the "brains" of the…

OT but what was the deal with the Toyota thing? I read something about this on HN the other day and as far as I can see they were unable to reproduce the bug https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9311_Toyota_vehicle... Would love to hear more about it from anyone who has more information.

The code was (probably typical) contractor spaghetti code, with plenty of potential bugs. But, no conclusive reproduction steps were ever found - much less any that would cause it to continue acceleration with the brakes on, transmission disengaged, or key off.
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