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The Science of Making Friends

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Re: The Science of Making Friends

#201

Post by stegosaurus »

enobrev wrote: post #167
stegosaurus wrote: post #40

WRT the decline with age, I've always felt like a lot of it is 'ego based', for lack of better terms. I've found that as time goes on, people are far more concerned with doing things by the book, projecting an image, etc. rather than just 'being', enjoying life in the moment, doing things just because. I've certainly been guilty of this to some extent because it seems impossible to avoid. Personal anecdote: At age 16…

I have some anecdotal perspective to offer in regards to where we tend to hang out when we’re young (reasons vary for us aged folk). One of the big reasons we end up at parks, or bus stops, or 7-11 parking lots, or wherever as teenagers is because we generally don't have the financial or social independence to go anywhere else to enjoy ourselves without the "burden" of adults. At 16, there aren't many places to go wi…

This is an attitude I see from many of my friends and I fundamentally disagree because I think so many of those 'other places' are stifling and non-inclusive.

A restaurant is a place where speaking more loudly than a certain amount will earn you ire from others. You're surrounded by other groups that aren't your group. There's a prescribed format. It's a ritual, you know? There's a sandbox out there, and the format is 'let's go and do X, for X hours, and that's it'.

I hate restaurants, and cinemas, and cafes, and stuff. Just give me a roof and we'll make the fun. But the roof doesn't exist, because as a society, we decided that capitalism and the building of private castles is how it's going to work. Railing against that as an individual is terribly hard.

The problem with it, is that if we decide as a society that these paid, gated experiences are how we're going to socialise, then everyone who doesn't work hard enough is excluded. That's how we get things like socio-economic groups. If you socialise in restaurants, then your friend circle reduces to the people who can afford to socialise in restaurants.

If it's non-deliberate, then it's sad. If it is deliberate, then it's the 'ego thing' that I tried to speak of in the first post - it's about us not realising that we are humanity, we don't need to battle each other and assert dominance, we can just be, you know? Individual, yes, but one, too.

We need public spaces and gatherings because otherwise the ultimate endgame is that people retreat into ever-smaller niche groups until we just sit on our own.

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#202

Post by morgante »

eric-hu wrote: post #199
morgante wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I may make a suggestion, try exploring social hobbies and friends will come. I did meetups for a while and met some cool programmers. I've tried going to meetups, but it doesn't seem like anyone is interested in being social. Everyone seems to be looking to network or advance professionally somehow. I never get the vibe that anyone would want to hang out with me. Maybe I'm just not friendly.

Yes, I've met many people who "just want to network." Based on past evidence, less than five percent of the people I met from meetups became longer lasting friends. (Those are probably great odds when compared to my friendship rates in school and college). I remember going home from some meetups feeling the night was a bust. In retrospect, I would have been less disappointed if I thought of it like dating or job hunt…

Maybe I'm doing it wrong then. I'm not aiming for a 100% match rate—I'd be happy with a 1% match rate.

For an entire year, I probably went to a meetup every other week. In that whole time I didn't make a single new friend.

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#203

Post by nazka »

urs2102 wrote: post #106
jfim wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely doable. Anyone in SF wants to meet in the golden gate park today around 3pm? Edit: Since this got a few upvotes but not many replies, feel free to come at 37°46'08.4"N 122°29'08.8"W ( https://goo.gl/maps/Vvyctgz4CAQ2 ). Will have a Linkedin tshirt/backpack.

Not in SF, but this is awesome. Hope it's fun!

Same here I can't. I live in France but as soon as I am back in SF I will!

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#204

Post by stegosaurus »

notduncansmith wrote: post #154
stegosaurus wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're absolutely spot on with this. I'm going through a period of change in my personal life at the moment, and I'm definitely going to keep this in mind, so thank you. One thing I would take issue with is conflating an app with societal change, though. The latter is much much harder. I think that in developed countries we have lost our way a bit. Work-life balance, to me, would mean that I work hard, and pl…

Doesn't basic income take care of that? The idea being that once companies have to compete with the entire world (as opposed to a few other companies) for your time and attention, flexible hours (and many other changes to the relationship between employees and companies) will become the default.

I hope so.

I try to live in that way, and I try to encourage those around me to live in that way (refusing imbalanced employment conditions). I think if enough people did, we could start to help each other, rather than relying on capital and private property so much.

Basic income is one sort of stepping stone towards that. Ultimately I think the ideal is people actually having real choices, not the huge bias we have towards salaried employment at the moment.

If life were an MMO, then salaried employment would be the cookie cutter build, hourly work would be the odd hybrid, and otherwise you've decided to not bother with your talent tree, and you're just gimping yourself. Can we tweak the rules of the game a bit, or are they just emergent?

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#205

Post by alanwatts »

stegosaurus wrote: post #40

WRT the decline with age, I've always felt like a lot of it is 'ego based', for lack of better terms. I've found that as time goes on, people are far more concerned with doing things by the book, projecting an image, etc. rather than just 'being', enjoying life in the moment, doing things just because. I've certainly been guilty of this to some extent because it seems impossible to avoid. Personal anecdote: At age 16…

>The community takes a back seat to economic needs, it seems. Something like that. I'm not sure.

This is actually a phenomenon which, according to Karl Polayni's Aristotle Discovers the Economy, roughly began in Greece shortly after the inventions of the alphabet and coinage which helped lay the framework for a more global economic system.

Traditionally tribal or "uncivilized" economies produced goods and services primarily for the local consumption of the clan, community, or family.

But soon after, production for consumption shifted to production for exchange as such societies became less "tribal" and more "civilized" via increasing literacy and "the market system".

With this phenomenon began the shift from the tribal values of family and community over the individual to civilized societies' value of the individual over the community.

Aristotle warned that this dynamic would destroy the autonomy and connectedness of the family and community and create a dangerous dependence on foreign goods.

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#206

Post by Kurtz79 »

morgante wrote: post #194
eric-hu wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I may make a suggestion, try exploring social hobbies and friends will come. I did meetups for a while and met some cool programmers. After a while, I didn't want to talk software as much in my free time, but one guy invited me out to go swing dancing. I now work online remotely in Asia and visit different cities to swing dance. Within 2 two weeks trips, I made some good freshman friends in Shanghai and Hong Kong.…

> If I may make a suggestion, try exploring social hobbies and friends will come. I did meetups for a while and met some cool programmers. I've tried going to meetups, but it doesn't seem like anyone is interested in being social. Everyone seems to be looking to network or advance professionally somehow. I never get the vibe that anyone would want to hang out with me. Maybe I'm just not friendly.

Maybe you should choose meetups for those of your hobbies that are not directly related to your career.

I mean, it is likely that if you are a programmer you'll end up talking about work in a programming or startup meetup.

It will be much harder if it's about boardgames or ultimate frisbee.

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#207

Post by Sohakes »

stegosaurus wrote: post #40

WRT the decline with age, I've always felt like a lot of it is 'ego based', for lack of better terms. I've found that as time goes on, people are far more concerned with doing things by the book, projecting an image, etc. rather than just 'being', enjoying life in the moment, doing things just because. I've certainly been guilty of this to some extent because it seems impossible to avoid. Personal anecdote: At age 16…

I feel it's like that too. We live to work and forget anything outside it. Maybe a bit off topic, but I like this piece from a cartoon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy9TsGOswVA.

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#208

Post by criddell »

stegosaurus wrote: post #111
nostrademons wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've observed the same but interpret it differently. Life gets more differentiated as you get older. You learn what makes you happy and what doesn't, you experience different situations and react to them, and you make decisions about who you're going to be and what you're going to do. And all of that becomes part of your identity. It's part of your accumulated self-knowledge. And part of that is perceiving difference…

That only explains half of the picture, though. The photograph in the linked article explains it quite well to me - regardless of how 'real' it is, there's a picture of a shiny gathering with the dresses and the shiny clothes and the fancy food, and so on. And there's nothing wrong with that. I love me some good dress-up and the food there looks super yum. But the simple gatherings seem to have disappeared. Outside o…

> I think it was the unified purpose, the school catchment area, maybe. That proximity.

My high school was super-stratified. The cliques were out of control.

As an adult, I have much more control over my surroundings and have found a place that fits me (it took some time - I've lived in two countries and 7 different cities). At 46, I'm much more comfortable with who I am and liking what I like than when I was 16. Teenagers often try so desperately to fit in that it ends up taking a long time to discover who they really are. BTW, I love how the movie American Beauty addresses this.

These days I have the resources to do what I want to do. That includes eating out with friends, going to baseball games, or just to the park to play with my kids and dog. I think the only time I get the sense of stifling that you describe is when I go to a formal event but that too is an experience I want.

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#209

Post by [deleted] »

coldtea wrote: post #185
nostrademons wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've observed the same but interpret it differently. Life gets more differentiated as you get older. You learn what makes you happy and what doesn't, you experience different situations and react to them, and you make decisions about who you're going to be and what you're going to do. And all of that becomes part of your identity. It's part of your accumulated self-knowledge. And part of that is perceiving difference…

The problem is that even with co-workers at the same bank, or one's "society for foo" it's extremely difficult and rare to hangout after a certain age. There are so many (work and self-imposed) obligations and "obligations" and BS, that it's even difficult to have quality/fun time with one's spouse. And this certainly cannot be explained away with "the spouse is a tiny part of your current experience/identity". So I…

[deleted]

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#210

Post by eric-hu »

morgante wrote: post #202
eric-hu wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I've met many people who "just want to network." Based on past evidence, less than five percent of the people I met from meetups became longer lasting friends. (Those are probably great odds when compared to my friendship rates in school and college). I remember going home from some meetups feeling the night was a bust. In retrospect, I would have been less disappointed if I thought of it like dating or job hunt…

Maybe I'm doing it wrong then. I'm not aiming for a 100% match rate—I'd be happy with a 1% match rate. For an entire year, I probably went to a meetup every other week. In that whole time I didn't make a single new friend.

Maybe they just weren't the right ones for you. I also tried many different meet ups before finding the one that stuck with me for over years.

There's no shame in trying that meet up out for a year. I think that's the crux of "don't expect too much too soon." Sounds like it's time to try out another tech meet up, another hobby meet up, or anything else that has potential.

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