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The Science of Making Friends

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Re: The Science of Making Friends

#191

Post by eric-hu »

morgante wrote: post #170
nostrademons wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the answer to that is very much "yes", but you have to make trade-offs in your life that show you value it. In order to have impromptu visits that fill up the empty spaces in your life, you first need to have empty spaces in your life. That is largely incompatible with filling every moment of your life with work or career advancement. That group of my high-school friends who are now largely janitors, retail clerk…

> What does matter is making a decision that friendships and relationships are important to you, and seeking out other people who have also made that decision. That is a necessary but not sufficient condition. I have plenty of time to make friends, but wouldn't be able to make any. Especially as you get older, it gets nearly impossible to approach people. At this point I'm down to a single nearby friend.

If I may make a suggestion, try exploring social hobbies and friends will come. I did meetups for a while and met some cool programmers. After a while, I didn't want to talk software as much in my free time, but one guy invited me out to go swing dancing.

I now work online remotely in Asia and visit different cities to swing dance. Within 2 two weeks trips, I made some good freshman friends in Shanghai and Hong Kong. We still talk online from time to time about the next time we'll meet up.

I am also looking to temper my expectations, as the article suggests. I tried out a couple other styles of dancing and met freshman friends in those scenes. I remember wanting to fit in so much with each new group, and I still feel it with swing dancing friends sometimes. Over time, opportunities to deepen friendships arise. There's a lot that's out of my control.

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#192

Post by mikegioia »

jrapdx3 wrote: post #125

Having gotten "old" by some definitions, I've increasingly experienced the "friend problem". The article seemed to be addressing a "non-old" segment of the population, so I think it's appropriate to offer a few observations from a different perspective. It's not just me of course, even my very friendly wife notices dwindling friendships despite putting a lot of energy into keeping them going. We often ask each other…

    If there is a key it must be the willingness to be
    persistent, not give up the effort to enrich the
    network of connectedness. Here and there people do
    respond, and a relationship slowly begins to form.
I think that's 100% right. I've lived in NYC for almost 10 years and the sad reality is that people come/go frequently. I've found persistence to be the only consistent factor in building all the friendships over those years.

Yes you need to click with someone, but we determine that within 5 minutes of talking to a new person. A lot of people make the effort to build a new friendship, but get too discouraged from a lack of reciprocation. 5 no's in a row can definitely signal "not interested" (ha) but a lot of people are interested they just need more of a push.

It does come down to how badly you want to build that new friendship, but I think a lot of people are just not persistent enough at the beginning tbh.

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#193

Post by mikegioia »

radicality wrote: post #141
colmvp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange. I had the opposite experience. I made more friends in NYC in 2 years than real friends in SF in 4. That's not to blame people, because hey, it takes two to tango and my behavior sabotaged my own success. But even though I am in tech, I still never felt comfortable in the monoculture of SF than while in NY.

Wondering too, how did you make friends in NYC? I'm finding it difficult.

One of the best methods is recreational, organized sports. One good example is ZogSports. A lot of people sign up alone and I think the team sports and group interaction really help form the bonds early.

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#194

Post by morgante »

eric-hu wrote: post #191
morgante wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does matter is making a decision that friendships and relationships are important to you, and seeking out other people who have also made that decision. That is a necessary but not sufficient condition. I have plenty of time to make friends, but wouldn't be able to make any. Especially as you get older, it gets nearly impossible to approach people. At this point I'm down to a single nearby friend.

If I may make a suggestion, try exploring social hobbies and friends will come. I did meetups for a while and met some cool programmers. After a while, I didn't want to talk software as much in my free time, but one guy invited me out to go swing dancing. I now work online remotely in Asia and visit different cities to swing dance. Within 2 two weeks trips, I made some good freshman friends in Shanghai and Hong Kong.…

> If I may make a suggestion, try exploring social hobbies and friends will come. I did meetups for a while and met some cool programmers.

I've tried going to meetups, but it doesn't seem like anyone is interested in being social. Everyone seems to be looking to network or advance professionally somehow.

I never get the vibe that anyone would want to hang out with me. Maybe I'm just not friendly.

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#195

Post by BatFastard »

zappo2938 wrote: post #57
BatFastard wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have found that "giving" with the expectation of getting something in return is just wrong headed. Give because you want to give. Of course you have to be careful of the takers. Friend of mine for many years was moving, he called me and asked me to help. I said "Roy, you are worth 10 million bucks, go pay someone to help you!" and he did. There are endless supplies of good people in the world. But it takes effort,…

When I was really young I lived in a small town and things were tight financially for most people. I guess helping each other when someone needed something was a not some virtuous thing but rather a form of currency. Hey, can you help wire the electric to the shack in the back yard. Sure, can your daughter watch my boys tonight. And, it continues like this. I disagree. I think there is a reasonable expectation that s…

I agree that asking for help from someone you consistently help is reasonable.

You may quote me on this. "The expectation of reasonableness is an unreasonable expectation"

I dont "need" lots of things, but they do make life more enjoyable.

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#196

Post by dualogy »

mistermann wrote: post #89
SonicSoul wrote: post #36

someone once said something along: any relationship will thrive to a degree to which value is derived by both sides This helped me understand a few things. We all have childhood friends that once made sense but now if we met these people we wouldn't become friends. That's the exception to above rule, and i'm sure there are a few others, but generally that is a good way to understand why a friendship is working or cea…

I would improve this to: any relationship will thrive to a degree to which perceived value is derived by both sides. I think a lot of people are stuck on a treadmill of success and would have a better life if they stopped to smell the roses, or talk to someone that maybe doesn't necessarily have an obvious way of adding value to their life.

Whenever I thought long enough about value, I concluded that all value is perceived value, including any manner or definition of "intrinsic value".

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#197

Post by eric-hu »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #104

There used to be a place in the Bay Area called "a clean well lighted place for books" which was a book store (of course) but it was also a pretty decent place to hang out. Of course talking and reading were fun (sort of a library without the librarian shhing you all the time) but I always wanted to create "A clean well lighted place to hack." which was more tech oriented. Of course you would need something to hack o…

> I always wanted to create "A clean well lighted place to hack." which was more tech oriented.

Isn't this exactly a hacker space? Well...besides the clean part.

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#198

Post by Pluizer »

andreygrehov wrote: post #23

What is friendship? Seriously. I'm curious to know how different the definition is across various people.

My personal definition: If I can call a person for no reason other then to tell them my cat just spilled my coffee and I'm annoyed I consider him/her a friend.

Maybe a strange one but I also consider people friends if I consider their insults directed to me funny.

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#199

Post by eric-hu »

morgante wrote: post #194
eric-hu wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I may make a suggestion, try exploring social hobbies and friends will come. I did meetups for a while and met some cool programmers. After a while, I didn't want to talk software as much in my free time, but one guy invited me out to go swing dancing. I now work online remotely in Asia and visit different cities to swing dance. Within 2 two weeks trips, I made some good freshman friends in Shanghai and Hong Kong.…

> If I may make a suggestion, try exploring social hobbies and friends will come. I did meetups for a while and met some cool programmers. I've tried going to meetups, but it doesn't seem like anyone is interested in being social. Everyone seems to be looking to network or advance professionally somehow. I never get the vibe that anyone would want to hang out with me. Maybe I'm just not friendly.

Yes, I've met many people who "just want to network." Based on past evidence, less than five percent of the people I met from meetups became longer lasting friends. (Those are probably great odds when compared to my friendship rates in school and college).

I remember going home from some meetups feeling the night was a bust. In retrospect, I would have been less disappointed if I thought of it like dating or job hunting. My goal isn't a 100% match rate. My goal is to find matches that leave me happy.

Re: The Science of Making Friends

#200

Post by stegosaurus »

coldtea wrote: post #185
nostrademons wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've observed the same but interpret it differently. Life gets more differentiated as you get older. You learn what makes you happy and what doesn't, you experience different situations and react to them, and you make decisions about who you're going to be and what you're going to do. And all of that becomes part of your identity. It's part of your accumulated self-knowledge. And part of that is perceiving difference…

The problem is that even with co-workers at the same bank, or one's "society for foo" it's extremely difficult and rare to hangout after a certain age. There are so many (work and self-imposed) obligations and "obligations" and BS, that it's even difficult to have quality/fun time with one's spouse. And this certainly cannot be explained away with "the spouse is a tiny part of your current experience/identity". So I…

Thank you for this comment. I think it's really hard to pin down.

I don't agree that it's about people 'drifting apart', or 'finding different interests'.

In some sense those are being taken as tautologies, when I don't think they are. Why can't people with different interests hang out?

There's loads to talk about. Our interests are a tiny microscopic portion of the human experience.

In the UK people go out and get stone drunk and then anything becomes a fun topic of discussion. We call it disinhibition. But why are we 'inhibited' to begin with?

This is why I call it 'ego'. I don't think I'm using the term accurately. It's just this idea of pleasing one's self, efficiently, rather than trying to be part of some whole, or just swimming, letting life happen.

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