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New body armour promises to transform fighting sports

economist.com

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Re: New body armour promises to transform fighting sports

#31

Post by actsasbuffoon »

Cyph0n wrote: post #10
jkot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is hardly impressive. Mediaval armour had about the same weight: > A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55 pounds).[2] The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armour was spread evenly throughout the body. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour

But the issue there is the joints, right? As far as I know, they were either exposed completely, like at the shoulder, or not flexible enough for fast-paced combat.

Yes, I believe the joints were usually weak points. Swords-people used a technique known as half-handing, where they'd keep one hand on the hilt, and use the other hand to grip near the tip of the blade. That allowed them to use the sword more like a dagger, which gave better accuracy for maneuvering into the joint, while also giving them greater leverage with the hilt-hand.

I was surprised that you can grip a blade with your bare hand, but apparently it's safe with a firm enough grip.

Re: New body armour promises to transform fighting sports

#32

Post by vlehto »

krautsourced wrote: post #18
jkot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is hardly impressive. Mediaval armour had about the same weight: > A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55 pounds).[2] The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armour was spread evenly throughout the body. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour

If I'm not mistaken plate armour wasn't all that great against blunt weapons though, since it probably does not distribute the impact very well. Whereas I'd suspect this kevlar armour to basically swallow those punches over a larger area, no?

No personal armor (so far) is good against blunt trauma. The reason for that is conservation of momentum. Blunt weapons often rely on large amount of momentum. Only thing you can do is to make the armor bouncy. So you can try to turn it into elastic collision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastic_collision

But then again they often added small spikes and rough surfaces to the tips of such weapons, to turn it into inelastic collision. http://www.medievalcollectibles.com/images/Product/large/AH-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inelastic_collision

The bad shit for the weapon is that it's very difficult to change the direction of war-hammer mid course. So it's easier to block.

Kevlar makes armor of similar effectiveness lighter. But there is nothing fundamentally better than old plate armors. It's still just distributing force to larger area. With penetrating weapons this is potentially very effective, as there is relatively little momentum and energy. The idea is to have very high local pressure at the tip of the weapon and this normally cuts deep into flesh.

Re: New body armour promises to transform fighting sports

#33

Post by njharman »

vlehto wrote: post #32
krautsourced wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm not mistaken plate armour wasn't all that great against blunt weapons though, since it probably does not distribute the impact very well. Whereas I'd suspect this kevlar armour to basically swallow those punches over a larger area, no?

No personal armor (so far) is good against blunt trauma. The reason for that is conservation of momentum. Blunt weapons often rely on large amount of momentum. Only thing you can do is to make the armor bouncy. So you can try to turn it into elastic collision. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastic_collision But then again they often added small spikes and rough surfaces to the tips of such weapons, to turn it into in…

historic plate, chain and other armors (including helmets) had significant padding, layers of it, underneath. This both stops arrows, spikes from reaching the skin and cushions spreads impact out.

Impact weapons were rare when hvy armors were in use. OTOH, heavy chopping polearms/swords (to get through joints in armor), and anything to knock plate wearer on ground (to then poke them in between armored bits) were developed and become more popular as heavier armors came about.

Re: New body armour promises to transform fighting sports

#34

Post by exDM69 »

I was expecting this to be D3O gel armor. It's a new material that is gel-like and flexible but turns rock hard on impact. It is used in motorcycle protectors as well as industrial and defense applications.

I'm waiting to get equestrian protective vests from this material but I've only found some very expensive competition jackets. The motorcycle protectors don't have adequate protection to the sides for when you've fallen and get hit by hooves.

http://www.d3o.com

Re: New body armour promises to transform fighting sports

#35

Post by ncallaway »

defen wrote: post #29
Rhapso wrote: post #9

Having done some SCA heavy, those open inner thighs make me twitch (armpits too, but less could be done about that). One thing SCA has figured out that the sports industry seems to have failed to is how helms work. It turns out the best way to extend the reduce the impact of hits to the head is NOT cushioning or crumpling to extend impulse but rather just having a lot of mass to move. I've been smashed over the head…

> watch SCA heavy Holy shit, these guys don't fuck around https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RiQR60-5gs

I've only dabbled in SCA heavy — it takes a pretty big time commitment and I got really busy with my consultancy. It's a great time and a good way to get exercise. If you stick with it and train consistency, you'll be in good shape.

Most of the sport — at least where I am — is focused on 1:1 battles, but these large field battles are really fun to participate in.

Re: New body armour promises to transform fighting sports

#37

Post by MagnumOpus »

njharman wrote: post #33
vlehto wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No personal armor (so far) is good against blunt trauma. The reason for that is conservation of momentum. Blunt weapons often rely on large amount of momentum. Only thing you can do is to make the armor bouncy. So you can try to turn it into elastic collision. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastic_collision But then again they often added small spikes and rough surfaces to the tips of such weapons, to turn it into in…

historic plate, chain and other armors (including helmets) had significant padding, layers of it, underneath. This both stops arrows, spikes from reaching the skin and cushions spreads impact out. Impact weapons were rare when hvy armors were in use. OTOH, heavy chopping polearms/swords (to get through joints in armor), and anything to knock plate wearer on ground (to then poke them in between armored bits) were deve…

> Impact weapons were rare when hvy armors were in use

No they weren't. Cheap and cheerful mauls and war hammers were very popular on mediaeval battlefields - the archers at Agincourt used them as secondary weapons against knights for instance.

And of course it is easy to turn a two-handed sword into an impact weapon as well - turn it around and use a pommel strike.

Re: New body armour promises to transform fighting sports

#39

Post by Eupolemos »

actsasbuffoon wrote: post #31
Cyph0n wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the issue there is the joints, right? As far as I know, they were either exposed completely, like at the shoulder, or not flexible enough for fast-paced combat.

Yes, I believe the joints were usually weak points. Swords-people used a technique known as half-handing, where they'd keep one hand on the hilt, and use the other hand to grip near the tip of the blade. That allowed them to use the sword more like a dagger, which gave better accuracy for maneuvering into the joint, while also giving them greater leverage with the hilt-hand. I was surprised that you can grip a blade…

*half-swording
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