Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#81

Post by _nedR » Sat, Apr 23, 2016, 11:00 AM UTC

sievebrain wrote: post #79

_nedR wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being from india, i have come to the opposite conclusion. Chinese protectionism (aided by the language barrier) has served chinese entrepreneurs quite well. They have their own google. Their own fb. Their own twitter. Basically all services that India doesnt have. The list goes on. These services may or may not be inferior to the original but from an economic standpoint, its good since the money and data flows within…

Served Chinese entrepreneurs but that isn't the same thing as served the Chinese people. For instance, at the time when Google was kicked out of China essentially leaving their market a Baidu monopoly, Baidu lacked many useful features of Google especially if you wanted to search for non-Chinese websites (e.g. if you were a scientist wanting to do international research). The PRC didn't care. Having a pliable and con…

Yeah, i agree. Definitely good for the indian consumer at least in the short term. Amazon and uber are winning out largely because they offer better service at competitive prices.

But in long term i dont know. I am no econmist but If all your stuff is made abroad and little is made locally how will consumers find money to pay for the imported goods?

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#82

Post by _nedR » Sat, Apr 23, 2016, 11:03 AM UTC

WWKong wrote: post #59

_nedR wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being from india, i have come to the opposite conclusion. Chinese protectionism (aided by the language barrier) has served chinese entrepreneurs quite well. They have their own google. Their own fb. Their own twitter. Basically all services that India doesnt have. The list goes on. These services may or may not be inferior to the original but from an economic standpoint, its good since the money and data flows within…

The issue is that Trade agreements don't allow such a move. You either partake in global trade or not. Can't have it both way. For example India will export beef, clothes etc. but block Uber and Amazon. Doesn't work that way.

China somehow makes it work though.

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#83

Post by skc » Sat, Apr 23, 2016, 11:43 AM UTC

sievebrain wrote: post #79

_nedR wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being from india, i have come to the opposite conclusion. Chinese protectionism (aided by the language barrier) has served chinese entrepreneurs quite well. They have their own google. Their own fb. Their own twitter. Basically all services that India doesnt have. The list goes on. These services may or may not be inferior to the original but from an economic standpoint, its good since the money and data flows within…

Served Chinese entrepreneurs but that isn't the same thing as served the Chinese people. For instance, at the time when Google was kicked out of China essentially leaving their market a Baidu monopoly, Baidu lacked many useful features of Google especially if you wanted to search for non-Chinese websites (e.g. if you were a scientist wanting to do international research). The PRC didn't care. Having a pliable and con…

You're being quite presumptuous in assuming the Chinese people served by local firms are miserable or worse off than their Western counterparts.

Not everything has to be seen through Western colored goggles. There is something quite admirable to me about China forcefully wanting their own local products front and center and frankly it's worked out well for their economy all things considered.

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#84

Post by sievebrain » Sat, Apr 23, 2016, 2:22 PM UTC

skc wrote: post #83

sievebrain wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Served Chinese entrepreneurs but that isn't the same thing as served the Chinese people. For instance, at the time when Google was kicked out of China essentially leaving their market a Baidu monopoly, Baidu lacked many useful features of Google especially if you wanted to search for non-Chinese websites (e.g. if you were a scientist wanting to do international research). The PRC didn't care. Having a pliable and con…

You're being quite presumptuous in assuming the Chinese people served by local firms are miserable or worse off than their Western counterparts. Not everything has to be seen through Western colored goggles. There is something quite admirable to me about China forcefully wanting their own local products front and center and frankly it's worked out well for their economy all things considered.

By definition, if protectionism is needed, then the locals preferred the foreign made products.

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#85

Post by sievebrain » Sat, Apr 23, 2016, 2:23 PM UTC

_nedR wrote: post #81

sievebrain wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Served Chinese entrepreneurs but that isn't the same thing as served the Chinese people. For instance, at the time when Google was kicked out of China essentially leaving their market a Baidu monopoly, Baidu lacked many useful features of Google especially if you wanted to search for non-Chinese websites (e.g. if you were a scientist wanting to do international research). The PRC didn't care. Having a pliable and con…

Yeah, i agree. Definitely good for the indian consumer at least in the short term. Amazon and uber are winning out largely because they offer better service at competitive prices. But in long term i dont know. I am no econmist but If all your stuff is made abroad and little is made locally how will consumers find money to pay for the imported goods?

They won't. Their ability to afford the foreign products would be limited by how much they earn, same as anyone is.

Protectionism doesn't fix that though. If you can't afford sophisticated cheap foreign-made goods, you also can't afford the crappy expensive protected local made goods either.

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#86

Post by 3pt14159 » Sat, Apr 23, 2016, 2:54 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #76

3pt14159 wrote: post #2

China has to play fairly carefully with Apple. On the one hand it's an American company that puts microphones and cameras into the cafes, offices, and bedrooms of many of their citizenry; but on the other hand, with decreasing competitiveness due to rising wages there isn't anything specifically _stopping_ Apple or other American tech companies from moving manufacturing out of China. Foxconn alone employs about 4.3 m…

Nobody else has anywhere near the capacity. Foxconn are the third largest tech company in the world, not a tinpot little outsourcing shop. Apple already use other EMS companies for reasons of cost and capacity, but they are all Chinese companies or rely on predominantly Chinese labour. Foxconn's nearest foreign competitor (Flextronics) is just a fifth of the size of Foxconn and sources most of its labour from China.…

China's cheap labor is not everything it used to be. Nearly 7x more expensive over the past two decades and expertise is everywhere. Sure it would be painful, but it isn't like China doesn't stand to also lose here as well.

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#87

Post by ryanhuff » Sun, Apr 24, 2016, 5:29 PM UTC

Steko wrote: post #66

3nki wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If China keeps giving western tech companies a hard time they might stop making their stuff in China. That would hurt the Chinese economy far more than they gain by local companies taking a little business from Apple and such.

That would have worked 15 years ago but again Apple needs access to China's market so they can't just unilaterally pull out their manufacturing.

Apple and others would be smart to diversify their manufacturing capabilities to other countries.

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#88

Post by soperj » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 6:20 AM UTC

maaku wrote: post #77

soperj wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't let me reply to you, but really if you're making it in the US, Japan, Korea, Taiwan are the same thing as China.

>., Japan, Korea, Taiwan are the same thing as China. Hahahaha nope.

Great contribution. You must feel pretty good about yourself.