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Not All Practice Makes Perfect

nautil.us

21–30 of 62 posts

Re: Not All Practice Makes Perfect

#21
> The approach that he took, which we will call "purposeful practice," turned out to be incredibly successful for him. It isn't always so successful, as we shall see, but it is more effective than the usual just-enough method — and it is a step toward deliberate practice, which is our ultimate goal.

The article then concludes with a description of purposeful practice. Where is the promised description of deliberate practice?

Re: Not All Practice Makes Perfect

#22
post #17

Really interesting. I wonder how you could use a similar technique to improve your code? Things like code reviews would give you the necessary feedback, but I can't think of a rigorous way to make sure you'd always be on the limit of what you're capable of, pushing a little further with each project.

Yes, especially if you don't have a senior colleague where you work and there are no other developers who could review your code like in my case (sole Frontend-Dev amongst Java-EE-Devs).

Re: Not All Practice Makes Perfect

#23
post #21

> The approach that he took, which we will call "purposeful practice," turned out to be incredibly successful for him. It isn't always so successful, as we shall see, but it is more effective than the usual just-enough method — and it is a step toward deliberate practice, which is our ultimate goal. The article then concludes with a description of purposeful practice. Where is the promised description of deliberate p…

I too was left disappointed and wondering the same thing when I came to the end of an otherwise great article.

My best guess is that anyone can do purposeful practicing simply by changing things up and staying out of one's "comfort zone", whereas deliberate practice is more or less the same thing, with the difference being that you have an experienced mentor guiding you through the process in a more structured manner with a tight feedback loop.

Re: Not All Practice Makes Perfect

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agreed, practicing slow enough to get it right is the most important thing for sure. once thats in the bag, then the problem becomes getting it up to speed, and techniques you were using at the slow pace can be non-viable past certain tempos. for me, getting it up to speed involves constantly interspersing the slow flawless practice with attempts that are right on the threshold of what i can do, tempo wise.

That seems surprising. It's not like there's a discrete threshold between "able" and "too fast". I'm not a violin player, but just about anything I can play slowly on a bass or piano, I can also play quickly, given enough practice, even if it means I can only initially play it at quarter or third speed with a metronome. Aside from some virtuouso performances, I think any beginner/intermediate player with a decent ear…

An example of the parent comment's point: learning a piece slowly but with poor fingering or posture can lead to one's fingers getting tangled or becoming exhausted and stiff when trying to speed up.

Re: Not All Practice Makes Perfect

#26
To sum up: "it's pretty easy to become average at something just by following instructions. Getting any better requires a different approach - well defined baby steps beyond what you're capable of at the moment." From me: Theory is easy, but altogether it still takes time and those baby steps on top don't make it easier to excel at something, so few people do. The reward flattens with level (big rewards early on, very little visible improvement later)

Re: Not All Practice Makes Perfect

#27
post #8

Something I've noticed, which the article doesn't quite say (but sure hints at): you can accidentally teach yourself performance-degrading "techniques" if you keep practicing beyond a certain point. I used to study (modern) drums 5+ hours a day. This would happen sometimes, around the time when I was learning a new technique: I'd start on the new material, practice it for a while, then I'd get it to a so-so point and…

I think it is a common mistake by people starting to learn for example an instrument. You play the new piece, often a bit too fast, and make a mistake. Then just repeat in the same way, making exactly the same mistake over and over again. The hope is that if you play it enough times and put in enough effort you will cease making the mistake. That is of course wrong. Instead you learn the mistake really really well. W…

A coach I knew used to say "you play how you practice" i.e. if you show up and just go through the motions at practice, you will play the same way.

Re: Not All Practice Makes Perfect

#28
post #17

Really interesting. I wonder how you could use a similar technique to improve your code? Things like code reviews would give you the necessary feedback, but I can't think of a rigorous way to make sure you'd always be on the limit of what you're capable of, pushing a little further with each project.

Most of the challenge in writing code is in understanding the problem you're trying to solve. Not the act of entering statements into editors.

Yes it's important to know the capabilites of your language and deployment stack -- but that just requires study, which in my mind is different from practice. I've never found that coding well required the sort of intense dedication that learning to play an instrument well, or play a sport well, requires.

Re: Not All Practice Makes Perfect

#29
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is a common mistake by people starting to learn for example an instrument. You play the new piece, often a bit too fast, and make a mistake. Then just repeat in the same way, making exactly the same mistake over and over again. The hope is that if you play it enough times and put in enough effort you will cease making the mistake. That is of course wrong. Instead you learn the mistake really really well. W…

agreed, practicing slow enough to get it right is the most important thing for sure. once thats in the bag, then the problem becomes getting it up to speed, and techniques you were using at the slow pace can be non-viable past certain tempos. for me, getting it up to speed involves constantly interspersing the slow flawless practice with attempts that are right on the threshold of what i can do, tempo wise.

I read somewhere that good practice for music specifically involves playing the piece through fast, ignoring your own errors, playing it through slowly enough that you don't make an error (and repeating this until you don't make an error), and then playing it at the intended tempo. So to someone this is a well-known idea. Is it not part of standard music instruction?

Re: Not All Practice Makes Perfect

#30

Something I've noticed, which the article doesn't quite say (but sure hints at): you can accidentally teach yourself performance-degrading "techniques" if you keep practicing beyond a certain point. I used to study (modern) drums 5+ hours a day. This would happen sometimes, around the time when I was learning a new technique: I'd start on the new material, practice it for a while, then I'd get it to a so-so point and…

The phrase I've heard is "Practice makes permanent ."

Followed by "Perfect practice makes perfect."
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