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Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

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Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#151

Post by Terretta »

dempseye wrote: post #148

I took the test and apparently I fall into the lowest five percent for richness of mental imagery. I recall being frustrated by exhortations to "close [my] eyes and imagine" things as a child, as if I was being asked to do something evidently impossible. And I always assumed that the counting sheep thing was mostly about the counting and that nobody could actually see sheep when they did it. Do people really see shee…

Ditto on the sheep thing. Thought it was a figure of speech. Ditto on the score. Gobsmacked. Curiously, I'm considered by peers as good at rendering concepts or architectures into drawings. Hmm.

Also, when I see movies derived from books I know whether they depict the same setting I took from the book. I know if the characteristics mesh, but don't really recall "seeing" the settings while reading.

Tend to ace those spatial tests. I slaughtered all my friends in Descent -- I almost immediately had each entire spatial 3D map in my head and knew where to go to get anywhere regardless of ship vs map orientation.

So yes, I recognize your experience almost exactly.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#152

Post by hackinthebochs »

dempseye wrote: post #148

I took the test and apparently I fall into the lowest five percent for richness of mental imagery. I recall being frustrated by exhortations to "close [my] eyes and imagine" things as a child, as if I was being asked to do something evidently impossible. And I always assumed that the counting sheep thing was mostly about the counting and that nobody could actually see sheep when they did it. Do people really see shee…

This is precisely my experience. The interesting thing is that I recognize faces extremely well, perhaps even to the level of super-recognizer, contradicting the guy in the article. I also score really well on spatial reasoning tests and do extremely well at mathematical and abstract reasoning. I wonder if there's a connection.

As far as the nature of my minds eye, I definitely don't see pictures at all, but as you said "feel" abstract forms. When I imagine a familiar relative, I don't see an image, but rather I'm reminded of important abstract features of the person. It's as if my minds eye operates on abstractions rather than concrete representations. I also attribute my math ability with being able to manipulate these sorts of abstract visual/spatial feelings, which leads me to believe there's a connection. Even as a programmer my abstract visual/spatial machinery is working to operate on mental representations of the program state.

I wonder differences in ability on this abstract visual/spatial vivid concrete representation axis can help explain differences in programming/math ability.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#153

Post by stupidcar »

I wonder if it's possible to improve your visual imagination through practice? My own mental images tend to be dim and fuzzy, far from the photorealistic scenes some people seem to be able to conjure up. But I wonder if there's a feedback effect here, where people whose visual imagination is stronger to begin with tend to use it more, thus further strengthening it, while people whose visual imagination starts off weaker use it less, and so it remains weak, or gets worse.

It would seem like learning to draw or paint might be a good way to train visual imagination. As I understand it, many artists begin by mastering representative art based purely on reference models, then later develop to produce works partly or wholly inspired by mental imagery.

I'm curious if anyone here who learnt to draw or paint during adulthood experienced a corresponding increase in the vividness of their mental images, particularly in areas not directly related to drawing? E.g. did your dreams become more vivid? Are you more able to imagine the specific details of your house, or your friends and family? Do your mental images feel "clearer" or more defined?

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#155

Post by Trufa »

dempseye wrote: post #148

I took the test and apparently I fall into the lowest five percent for richness of mental imagery. I recall being frustrated by exhortations to "close [my] eyes and imagine" things as a child, as if I was being asked to do something evidently impossible. And I always assumed that the counting sheep thing was mostly about the counting and that nobody could actually see sheep when they did it. Do people really see shee…

Interesting, I had never even considered that people could have a hard time with that.

I was taking this test and thinking it was stupid, since well, duh, you just have to imagine it, I do basically all my remembering that way.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#157

Post by zerr »

pavlov wrote: post #147

The test seems nearly useless. What's the difference between "moderately clear" and "reasonably clear"? Seems like a test subject would need to be prepared quite thoroughly with image and video examples to define the available options.

On the other hand, it is probably useful for extremes... Personally, it was hard for me to choose other options but vivid.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#158

Post by dempseye »

Terretta wrote: post #151
dempseye wrote: post #148

I took the test and apparently I fall into the lowest five percent for richness of mental imagery. I recall being frustrated by exhortations to "close [my] eyes and imagine" things as a child, as if I was being asked to do something evidently impossible. And I always assumed that the counting sheep thing was mostly about the counting and that nobody could actually see sheep when they did it. Do people really see shee…

Ditto on the sheep thing. Thought it was a figure of speech. Ditto on the score. Gobsmacked. Curiously, I'm considered by peers as good at rendering concepts or architectures into drawings. Hmm. Also, when I see movies derived from books I know whether they depict the same setting I took from the book. I know if the characteristics mesh, but don't really recall "seeing" the settings while reading. Tend to ace those s…

This is another thing: people complain about film adaptations on the grounds that they look different to the mental image of the characters, setting, etc., that they formed while reading the book. I never understood that.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#159

Post by kule »

I used to have a lot of trouble with this. It didn't help having the terminology 'visualisation' which makes it feel like you're not doing it right if you don't 'see' something.

It's something you can work on by using your other senses for instance rather than trying to see something, concentrate on what it feels like, or the sounds or the smells. e.g. To picture a beach feel the sand in your toes, the breeze on your face, the noise of the waves or the smell of the salt air.

If you can concentrate with that in your mind instead I find a picture will then quite often form. Especially true if you take the time to quieten your mind first (e.g yoga, breathing techniques, meditation etc).

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#160

Post by stupidcar »

pavlov wrote: post #147

The test seems nearly useless. What's the difference between "moderately clear" and "reasonably clear"? Seems like a test subject would need to be prepared quite thoroughly with image and video examples to define the available options.

I believe the test is an attenuated version of one use in real psychological research, the Vividness of Visual Imagery Questionnaire[1], and has proved to have predictive power. E.g. the scores people give correspond with the level of activity seen in their brains when they undergo MRI scans, so although vague, it isn't "useless" in that sense.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vividness_of_Visual_Imagery_Qu...

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