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Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

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Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#101

I would be curious to see how the HN community scores on this aphantasia survey embedded in the BBC article: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34039054 . Perhaps there's a connection between programmers and this condition. Will you take it and report your score? The survey is oversimplified, obviously, but it was devised by the Exeter neurologists who are studying this. I got the lowest score (8/40) since none of the qu…

9/40

All my "images" are descriptions, but for some of the questions I think those descriptions are vivid enough to count as images. (For example, gradient was a helpful term for the sun and the sky.)

I'm an INTJ engineer, in case that's a helpful thing to note. Audio and "feelings" are even harder for me to imagine, because I have less descriptive language

It's actually hard for me to imagine what people mean by pictures in the mind. Surely nobody imagines things the way they see things?

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#102

I would be curious to see how the HN community scores on this aphantasia survey embedded in the BBC article: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34039054 . Perhaps there's a connection between programmers and this condition. Will you take it and report your score? The survey is oversimplified, obviously, but it was devised by the Exeter neurologists who are studying this. I got the lowest score (8/40) since none of the qu…

37/40, I struggle a little with visualizing faces but not much else. I've worked as a software developer for 10+ years, I would have thought programmers skewed towards high visualization.

Do y'all visualize objects as amorphous blobs floating in space with little fish hook methods covering the exterior? When writing SQL, do you not visualize the ERD in your head? Might explain why I've always been strong in data modelling, but like everything, probably a downside somewhere else.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#104

I'm the author of this post, happy to answer any questions. About me: I was formerly a director of product at FB and a founder of Firefox. My YC startup became FB's first acquisition. I'm focusing more on creative writing these days (wrote the Silicon Valley spec script and the Theranos parody that have come up on HN a few times.) Aphantasia was a pretty weird discovery for me given this new focus.

I had what I would describe as a 90% version of this for the longest time. My mental imagery was mostly ephemeral to the point that it may as well have not existed—attempting to picture something would give me a mental 'flash' of it, that would then instantly be replaced with darkness. Nothing would stick around long enough to permit examination.

I discovered one 'trick' to get around this: certain music would cause strong, evocative "music video" imagery to be conjured in my mind's eye for as long as I listened to it, with this being mostly directible (i.e. the emotional cues of the song were fixed, but I could constrain the imagery to anything that matched those emotional beats.) I considered myself a writer in my teenage years because I took advantage of those "synesthetic fantasias" to build up scenes and characters in a sci-fi setting of my own creation. Sadly, this ability faded with age.

More recently, I was diagnosed with Inattentive-type ADHD (and, to be clear, it was always there, rather than adult-onset; my parents just disregarded the advice of my family doctor and pretended I was neurotypical.) I began taking medication for it. My visual imagery is not ephemeral any more! I mean, it still kind of is, insofar as mental images will be lost the moment I temporarily lose focus on them—but I can now hold the images for as long as I concentrate on them.

I think I might now actually have access to the full "thought toolset" other people do, but since I developed and rely on this alternate way to go about thinking without it, I don't reach for visually-imagining as a way to do things, so it doesn't get used often.

On the other hand, I notice that, on ADHD medication, I have far fewer fleeting "unrequested" visual images. I can now imagine consciously, but it seems like the visualization capabilities of my subconscious have been switched entirely off.

Though, I do notice, if I go a day without taking my ADHD meds, the second night—when it's all washed out of my system, but my brain hasn't bounced back to producing any dopamine, so the amount in there is even lower than my baseline—I'll have really intense dreams, where the details of every scene are full of "grotesquely real" imagery, as if DeepDream were trained on Zdzisław Beksiński paintings.

This almost makes me wonder whether there's a sort of "cross-fade" potential between conscious and subconscious visualizing, controlled by dopamine. Really low dopamine: vivid dreams, no conscious visualizing. Average dopamine: meh dreams, meh visualizing. High dopamine: no dreams, vivid visualizing. (This would also fit with the observation that visual hallucinations are a symptom of mania.)

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#105
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was very mind-opening write, thanks! Could I ask if you drink alcohol? If so, do you experience an alternation in your mood like being more relaxed or having a different perspective on things?

I drink socially. It seems to have pretty typical effects -- less social inhibition and so forth. Why do you ask?

See my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11556763

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#106
post #3

> If I tell you to imagine a beach, you can picture the golden sand and turquoise waves. Yes, with great detail. > If I ask for a red triangle, your mind gets to drawing. Yup (and it's spinning for some reason!) > And mom’s face? Of course. Not at all! I've always been intrigued about this. I have a very rich "mind's eye", but always struggle with drawing faces in my mind. My experience with imagining faces: I get th…

Have you tried the "Famous Faces" test?

http://www.faceblind.org/facetests/ff/ff_intro.php

There's lots more information about Face Blindness (prosopagnosia) on the http://faceblind.org site.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human mind adapts, he only recently concluded that there is a difference... It doesn't mean he can't have visual humor. He just experiences it differently ( text/facts vs images)

This makes no sense. I'm really skeptical of this "disorder." I think it mostly amounts to "semantics and variability in human abilities, not pathology."[1] Metacognition like this is super slippery and is really easy to draw whatever conclusion you want. I've just never been able to draw even mildly realistic anything ever, this doesn't mean I have a disease. [1] http://doc2doc.bmj.com/forums/open-clinical_psychiatr…

Whatever you want to believe about semantics (which I addressed in the article), the Exeter neurologists did see a difference in the man's MRI scans versus the control group.

Sure, we can call that a "variability in human ability" rather than a "disorder". I never used the word "disorder" anyway.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#108

I'm the author of this post, happy to answer any questions. About me: I was formerly a director of product at FB and a founder of Firefox. My YC startup became FB's first acquisition. I'm focusing more on creative writing these days (wrote the Silicon Valley spec script and the Theranos parody that have come up on HN a few times.) Aphantasia was a pretty weird discovery for me given this new focus.

Have you ever tried any psychedelics? Feel free not to answer. I am very curious if they could make that connection. I know LSD puts the brain's visual processing into overdrive, perhaps it might make the connection strong enough to give you this mind's eye, even if only temporary.

I haven't.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#109
post #65
post #3

> If I tell you to imagine a beach, you can picture the golden sand and turquoise waves. Yes, with great detail. > If I ask for a red triangle, your mind gets to drawing. Yup (and it's spinning for some reason!) > And mom’s face? Of course. Not at all! I've always been intrigued about this. I have a very rich "mind's eye", but always struggle with drawing faces in my mind. My experience with imagining faces: I get th…

Actually I think there's a reason for this. I took a cognitive science class once where our professor said that many believe that the portion of the brain responsible for recognizing faces is separate from the portion that does all other visual recognition. Perhaps that's why people have a hard time remembering what a face looks like. It's also why some people can lose their ability to recognize faces but can still r…

Could that also be why untrained artists are better at drawing faces if they view and draw them upside down?
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