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A Protocol for Dying

hintjens.com

301–310 of 347 posts

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#302
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the downvotes?

Talk about flowery language. 1. This is a tragedy of a death of a human being and the loss for a family of a beloved one - all caused by a disease , not by a "suicide". 2. Those statistics are for overall suicides, not medical assisted ones. Even if they were for medical assisted "suicides" you would need to control for other factors. 3. Medical-assisted "suicide" is voluntary, not imposed by a third party. Its peopl…

The article brought up Euthanasia in big letters and promoted it, and many comments here talk about it favorably; it's on-topic. I disagree, and gave reasons. Disagreement is not off-topic, and it's not disrespectful. If I was dying, or knew someone who was (or in this case, heard about someone who was) I wouldn't want people softening up just to please me.

It isn't extremist to say that it's always wrong to kill an innocent person even if that person asks to be killed. When I was a kid watching silly movies, I knew that you could shoot a dying dog, but that it wasn't right to shoot a dying man. This was because humans had a certain dignity that put them above animals, even if they had to suffer for it.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely a good thing. We need some of our cells to die as our tissues develop, society needs people to die in order to develop. A society without death would be a stagnant hell.

Would it? Perhaps we wouldn't be so cagey around racist grandparents (or their equivalent) if they weren't going to die soon. I think it's an incredibly pessimistic view of humanity to suggest social change can only come about through death. Moreover, I think this argument tends to come solely from people trying to excuse death, rather than any kind of reasonable analysis.

The problem is that in a world without aging and natural death, your racist great-great-grandparents have (effectively) all of the resources and power, and therefore no reason to listen to you at all.

Yes, this is a pessimistic viewpoint, but I think it's also a realistic one.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#304
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your point, though I didn't read it this way. > The really unpleasant truth is that if we as a society began doing serious focused R&D on these life-threatening diseases earlier, the OP and many others wouldn't have to die. I absolutely agree with that and the fact that fighting death is so low on social priorities is something that boggles my mind. However even if we dropped everything and started worki…

I can accept the idea of prolonging one's life for a meaningful purpose. But, to think that we should aim for "curing dead"? You talk about death as it is some kind of disease... Dead is part of life everywhere you look and not in the disease sense. There's a cyclic constant in all nature. You have seasons. You have day and night. Even stars that "live" for millions of years wither and "die" at some point. Why do you…

Can you give a reason why we shouldn't cure death that isn't vague mystical equivocation? People are not seasons, they are not days, they are not stars. We do not need to "deserve" immortality, we just need to be able to make it happen.

Death sucks. It would be better if it didn't happen.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#305

I have wanted to read up on ZeroMQ. This time I will. It is meaningless in the face of his situation, but I feel like this is how I, as a programmer, can "talk" to him, honor him. I'm not trying to be sentimental but it feels right.

And here's my small tribute: ZeroMQ is good. It's well designed and has unusually good documentation. You'll enjoy reading up on it. It has a quality feel.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same situation in Italy. Unfortunately. Anyone wanting a be euthanised has to travel Switzerland, which is not always feasible at end-of-life (also considering that the whole procedure costs ~20k$). I spent my civil service as an EMT and only once I saw a doctor giving the daughter of a terminally ill woman a piece of advice I will never forget (this woman was in such bad conditions, she simply wasn't there anymore a…

One thing I've heard of is people "leaving the bottle open" next to the bed. That way the ill person can "accidentally" decide for themselves.

I've heard similar. Also with family members being taught how to use the morphine IV dripper, and what a fatal dose looks like.

The alternative is for patients to refuse food and water until they die.

I'd been thinking about this a lot because my father was diagnosed with a terminal illness 3+ years ago. We'd discussed euthanasia, and he definitely didn't want to spend his final 6-12 months suffering.

Because he didn't die, the docs took another look and realised he'd been misdiagnosed (and yes, we got 2nd & 3rd opinions after the initial diagnosis).

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#307
I became an admirer of this man's software aesthetic when I first discovered and compiled libero.

In my opinion, this is a great loss to the world of programming.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#308

Another perspective, adopted by millions is simpler, and more joyful to explain. This life is temporary, but a life with Christ in heaven is eternal. Our christian funerals are often celebrations about a journey on earth well fought.

Forgive me for this, but it's my life and my death, and of all the bullshit I've had to tolerate in my life, the insane preachings of long dead desert shamans are the worst. Take it somewhere else, thank you.

You know, I feel sorry for you that you never found your way. In a way, you are right about "insane preachings". There has been so much twist and turmoil to messages long gone. And a stranger is left with the bits and pieces if he wishes to put it all together. And if he tries, he hardly ever comes up with the absolute truth unfailing in every situation. That is what absolute truth is, unfailing, and such truth is always ONLY a result of the divine.

Regardless, your "protocol" is hardly a protocol for the majority of people. It only holds true for the emotionally numb and autistic minds. In fact, every sentence you expressed only comes from an autistic person. I am in the same boat now as you were when you enjoyed talking to strangers. I too love philosophical debate. We could have shared a lot had I the chance to know you. Thank you for sharing your personality. I relate to it. And I am glad to know I am not weird for being that way.

In return, I wish to share with you just one request and message: Please look into Islam and the Quran before you close your book forever! The message is simple: One god/creator/lord-of-all-things/ONE, His Last messenger, the last messenger's miracle (Quran) in a time transcending form. Please shun away every textbook reasoning you may have against religion, against God, just for a moment. Please lose your belief in the superiority of the self. Please lose your complacency that you have it all figured out. Please look into Islam like a person just born with so much to learn. Sorry if this offends you, but I beg you, please!

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#309
A terrible earthquake hit my country last saturday, killing hundreds in seconds. Before, I would have said: at least their death was quick. But now I think like Pieter: the best way to die is when you have enough time to say goodbye, even if that means painful cancer.

Goodbye Pieter, go happy knowing that you've put in your kids much more than DNA, they're set for an awesome journey!

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#310

Best thing I ever created with Pieter was stallmanism.com a few years ago. And the beers we drank over the years discussing a wide range of topics while typically being surrounded by people that started to shake heads after a few minutes of listening in. Moments that will survive everything. Thank you, Pieter. Love you.

Love you too, Jan.
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