Edward Snowden: The Internet Is Broken • Hacker News Board

Re: Edward Snowden: The Internet Is Broken

#41

Post by nickpsecurity » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:03 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #19

0xCMP wrote: post #16

> But at the same time, we technologists as a class knew academically that these capabilities could be abused, but nobody actually believed they would be abused. Because why would you do that? It seemed so antisocial as a basic concept. I guess so? Not me though. Snowden literally only proved what I had learned on my own. > But we were confronted with documented evidence in 2013 that even what most people would consi…

You knew GCHQ tapped Google's datacenter-to-datacenter links?

Definitely. They could, targets were using it, they were known to tap backhaul microwaves/satellites, their own guideance in high-assurance side was using link encryptors between sites, its in their commercial recommendations (NIPSOM Industrial Security Manual), and so on. Everything in the world to make you think somebody was tapping your line and that they might.

So, some groups that were wise went ahead and deployed link encryptors. Black programs, follow NIPSOM and SAP supplements, sure as hell used link encryptors so good [1] we can't buy them because... national security. I sure as hell used end-to-end crypto and VPN's for anything significant. Google and Facebook... treasure troves of PII and I.P.... didn't for reasons I can't imagine. Result was they got intercepted in bulk by something that's been a known risk for 20+ years. Take NSA out of picture and they should've still thought the lines might get tapped by crooks or foreign spooks.

So, yes, Snowden leaks mostly just taught us what we already knew in greater detail. People ignored it then, some ignore it now, and yeah problems happened.

[1] http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/high_speed_net...

Re: Edward Snowden: The Internet Is Broken

#42

Post by badminton1 » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:12 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #33

badminton1 wrote: post #14

The EFF warned long ago something was going on when AT&T was putting beam splitters on Internet backbones to feed the NSA. Then Snowden revealed how everything is tapped. Then, be sure all mainstream encryption is "NOBUS". Nothing is truly random. Someone somewhere has the master key: elliptic curve cryptography using magic numbers from NIST? "Secure boot" by Intel? OpenSSL? Microsoft software? All backdoored. Trust…

I heard about those taps in 2008/2009 I think. Snowden hasn't really given us anything truly new. It's also bizarre how quickly everything he presented was/is accepted as fact immediately without question. I think it's way more likely Snowden was intentional. He's still working for the Federal government and the leaks are intentional so that the Federal Government could announce to the world that they are spying on a…

"Super secret information leak! Oh no, please don't read it" = "Sale! 50% off! We are losing so much money!"

Re: Edward Snowden: The Internet Is Broken

#43

Post by matchagaucho » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:15 PM UTC

"police and the government then have the authority to search through your entire life in your pocket just because you are pulled over for a broken taillight"

This is the classic Snowden formula. Establish a false premise that has no faith in the government or constitutional rights, then continue to paint a picture of a dystopian future.

This guy should be writing sci-fi novels...

[edit: I predicted at least 5 down votes as I typed this. Don't disappoint me ;-) ]

Re: Edward Snowden: The Internet Is Broken

#44

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:19 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #33

badminton1 wrote: post #14

The EFF warned long ago something was going on when AT&T was putting beam splitters on Internet backbones to feed the NSA. Then Snowden revealed how everything is tapped. Then, be sure all mainstream encryption is "NOBUS". Nothing is truly random. Someone somewhere has the master key: elliptic curve cryptography using magic numbers from NIST? "Secure boot" by Intel? OpenSSL? Microsoft software? All backdoored. Trust…

I heard about those taps in 2008/2009 I think. Snowden hasn't really given us anything truly new. It's also bizarre how quickly everything he presented was/is accepted as fact immediately without question. I think it's way more likely Snowden was intentional. He's still working for the Federal government and the leaks are intentional so that the Federal Government could announce to the world that they are spying on a…

> I heard about those taps in 2008/2009

Back then the excuse was that they were only being used to collect foreign traffic. Snowden revealed their loose interpretation of "foreign" and many more domestic activities happening outside of AT&T NOCs.

Foreigners' rights aren't protected by the constitution. Citizens' are and now we have legal standing to force the government to respect the law which we didn't have before knowing that the panopticon was pointed at us.

Re: Edward Snowden: The Internet Is Broken

#45

Post by pyre » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:19 PM UTC

matchagaucho wrote: post #43

"police and the government then have the authority to search through your entire life in your pocket just because you are pulled over for a broken taillight" This is the classic Snowden formula. Establish a false premise that has no faith in the government or constitutional rights, then continue to paint a picture of a dystopian future. This guy should be writing sci-fi novels... [edit: I predicted at least 5 down vo…

If authority figures that broke laws were appropriately punished, then it would be easier to trust in the rule of law. When police officers, politicians, judges, etc can all get away with things that "regular" people would not get away with, then the system is broken.

Re: Edward Snowden: The Internet Is Broken

#46

Post by whiskers08xmt » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:21 PM UTC

matchagaucho wrote: post #43

"police and the government then have the authority to search through your entire life in your pocket just because you are pulled over for a broken taillight" This is the classic Snowden formula. Establish a false premise that has no faith in the government or constitutional rights, then continue to paint a picture of a dystopian future. This guy should be writing sci-fi novels... [edit: I predicted at least 5 down vo…

We should always look at how laws and institutions may abuse their power, and establish the proper safeguards.

Re: Edward Snowden: The Internet Is Broken

#47

Post by snowwrestler » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:25 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #33

badminton1 wrote: post #14

The EFF warned long ago something was going on when AT&T was putting beam splitters on Internet backbones to feed the NSA. Then Snowden revealed how everything is tapped. Then, be sure all mainstream encryption is "NOBUS". Nothing is truly random. Someone somewhere has the master key: elliptic curve cryptography using magic numbers from NIST? "Secure boot" by Intel? OpenSSL? Microsoft software? All backdoored. Trust…

I heard about those taps in 2008/2009 I think. Snowden hasn't really given us anything truly new. It's also bizarre how quickly everything he presented was/is accepted as fact immediately without question. I think it's way more likely Snowden was intentional. He's still working for the Federal government and the leaks are intentional so that the Federal Government could announce to the world that they are spying on a…

I hope you're being satirical. This is such a classic formulation of a conspiracy theory that I hope it's intentional. If so, bravo!

If not, then like all conspiracy theories you need to account for everyone who would need to be in on the secret, how they're all keeping the secret, and why--what's in it for them.

Re: Edward Snowden: The Internet Is Broken

#48

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:25 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #33

badminton1 wrote: post #14

The EFF warned long ago something was going on when AT&T was putting beam splitters on Internet backbones to feed the NSA. Then Snowden revealed how everything is tapped. Then, be sure all mainstream encryption is "NOBUS". Nothing is truly random. Someone somewhere has the master key: elliptic curve cryptography using magic numbers from NIST? "Secure boot" by Intel? OpenSSL? Microsoft software? All backdoored. Trust…

I heard about those taps in 2008/2009 I think. Snowden hasn't really given us anything truly new. It's also bizarre how quickly everything he presented was/is accepted as fact immediately without question. I think it's way more likely Snowden was intentional. He's still working for the Federal government and the leaks are intentional so that the Federal Government could announce to the world that they are spying on a…

[deleted]

Re: Edward Snowden: The Internet Is Broken

#49

Post by barrkel » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:29 PM UTC

nickpsecurity wrote: post #41

sp332 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You knew GCHQ tapped Google's datacenter-to-datacenter links?

Definitely. They could, targets were using it, they were known to tap backhaul microwaves/satellites, their own guideance in high-assurance side was using link encryptors between sites, its in their commercial recommendations (NIPSOM Industrial Security Manual), and so on. Everything in the world to make you think somebody was tapping your line and that they might. So, some groups that were wise went ahead and deploy…

The core infrastructure security people at Google didn't know it, from what I understand. Maybe they're all incompetent; maybe they were lying; or maybe the knowledge (not rumour or suspicion) wasn't as pervasive as you say it was.

Re: Edward Snowden: The Internet Is Broken

#50

Post by pyre » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:31 PM UTC

nickpsecurity wrote: post #41

sp332 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You knew GCHQ tapped Google's datacenter-to-datacenter links?

Definitely. They could, targets were using it, they were known to tap backhaul microwaves/satellites, their own guideance in high-assurance side was using link encryptors between sites, its in their commercial recommendations (NIPSOM Industrial Security Manual), and so on. Everything in the world to make you think somebody was tapping your line and that they might. So, some groups that were wise went ahead and deploy…

Google's datacenter-to-datacenter links probably weren't going over the public internet, so they didn't feel the need to protect against man-in-the-middle attacks on physical lines that they owned. If you connected two computers to each other with a cross-over cable, would you feel the need to encrypt all communications between them, just in case?