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A Protocol for Dying

hintjens.com

291–300 of 347 posts

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#291

I always like to think that we don't really die, we live on in the memories of our loved ones. Even if you don't leave a massive legacy behind like you. When I think back of the good moments with my grandparents I'm not sad, I'm happy I got the chance to have experienced them in the first place. Thank you Pieter, and godspeed on your big journey, whereever it will take you.

This is one of the possible afterlives described in "Sum: Forty Tales from the Afterlives" of David Eagleman

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those wondering what the typical regulations consist of, I found the following article doing a quick google search: >> In all jurisdictions, the request for euthanasia or pas has to be voluntary, well-considered, informed, and persistent over time. The requesting person must provide explicit written consent and must be competent at the time the request is made. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3070710/…

It would be relevant to know, of the 'involuntary' numbers, how many of those were statutory involuntary and for what reasons. My hope is that in the majority of those cases the paperwork either just didn't get finished in time, or that the subject in some way did actually want this but started the process too late to be clearly of their own decision.

Reading the PDF (http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/nejmsa071143):

"When life was ended without the explicit request of the patient, there had been discussion about the act or a previous wish of the patient for the act in 60.0% of patients, as compared with 26.5% in 2001. In 2005, the ending of life was not discussed with patients because they were unconscious (10.4%) or incompetent owing to young age (14.4%) or because of other factors (15.3%). Of all cases of the ending of life in 2005 without an explicit request by the patient, 80.9% had been discussed with relatives. In 65.3% of cases, the physician had discussed the decision with one or more colleagues"

So, part of this is due to the fact that the law states that doctors must check that the patient consents _now_ with the choice. A written statement that, for example, one doesn't want to live on with Alzheimer's when one has reached a well-described state is not sufficient.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#293

I actually wanted to attend that keynote and now you popup over here. Thought it would be a nice day, some friends / colleagues presenting anyway. Somehow my brain wandered off reading this article thinking what would have happened if you could have presented this blog post as a keynote. How would the audience react, would it differ from this where people have more time to digest it? Definitely some awkward social ev…

Hey - it's very respectable to go out with such dignity, but please don't call feeling bad and complaining about it "bitching" or "whining". The experience varies from person to person and it can be utterly terrifying to some. (Unless this is a reference I'm not getting or something, then nevermind)

I completely agree. Didn't think to much about it, indeed an Internet meme. Seems I can't edit my original comment anymore but know that I definitely do not consider people taking another route whiners or bitchers. There is no Wrong way to do it.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#294

Are you getting fully sequenced before you die, so if there are discoveries later, your kids will have a database of you to compare against? Apparently the cost finally dropped below $1kUSD this year

Hahaha... oh wait, you're serious? I think, and hope my kids will slowly forget about me except as deep and positive experiences, and it would be narcissistic in the extreme to ask them to carry my DNA around like ashes, just in case. None of us are that special, me certainly not. Life is for the living, not the dead.

I don't think they're talking about having your kids 3d print a clone of you using your dna, but about having medical info available in case your cancer is hereditary. You seem to be into giving your body to science, so it's not a crazy suggestion.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#295

It seems against protocol to argue with a dying man, but refraining also seems disrespectful to Pieter. I always open the comment section hoping that someone will disagree with the article in a thoughtful way; perhaps it's my turn, since I disagree so intensely. Presumably others would like to at least hear the counterpoints. Euthanasia is bad from a practical standpoint, and an evil, because: 1. Objectively speaking…

Why the downvotes?

Talk about flowery language.

1. This is a tragedy of a death of a human being and the loss for a family of a beloved one - all caused by a disease, not by a "suicide".

2. Those statistics are for overall suicides, not medical assisted ones. Even if they were for medical assisted "suicides" you would need to control for other factors.

3. Medical-assisted "suicide" is voluntary, not imposed by a third party. Its people like you, with your extremist ideas, that are imposing something by denying others the right to choose.

4. This is really not the time nor the place to discuss these ideas. Have some respect please.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#296
Thank you, Pieter, for your sane approach. The comments here demonstrate aptly the power of your words over the HN community. I lost a father and an in-law to cancer, and your post simply nails the target for me. I wish I'd read this back then.

Then again, as you demonstrate, we need not focus on the things we cannot change. Spending time with regrets is time wasted. Thank you!

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#300

It seems against protocol to argue with a dying man, but refraining also seems disrespectful to Pieter. I always open the comment section hoping that someone will disagree with the article in a thoughtful way; perhaps it's my turn, since I disagree so intensely. Presumably others would like to at least hear the counterpoints. Euthanasia is bad from a practical standpoint, and an evil, because: 1. Objectively speaking…

So this is from a personal point of view, my dad choose euthanasia. 1. Yeah it's suicide. When you live in constant pain, lie in bed, get meds that make you hallunicate and have no realistic hope for improvement that seems like a reasonable option. 2. Suicide usually has some form of emotional component in it that is shared in the environment. That's why we call it euthanasia, it's not really comparable other then th…

Thanks for your response. If I'm reading you right, you seem to be saying for (1) "suicide is better than living like that" - well... yeah, but isn't that always the motive, what's the difference now? And for (2) "sometimes, mistakes are made and people die who shouldn't have" - is that what you also think when it comes to, say, the death penalty?

Sorry about your dad.

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