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The average size of Web pages is now the average size of a Doom install

mobiforge.com

291–300 of 467 posts

Re: The average size of Web pages is now the average size of a Doom install

#291

> Recall that Doom is a multi-level first person shooter that ships with an advanced 3D rendering engine and multiple levels, each comprised of maps, sprites and sound effects. Doom isn't in true 3D, its an advanced raycasting engine. The levels are all 2D, there are no polygons, you can't look up and down. Doom has been ported to a TI Calculator. Lets maintain some perspective here.

>Lets maintain some perspective here.

I see what you did here.

Re: The average size of Web pages is now the average size of a Doom install

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument proves too much. If we wanted better sneaker materials or retractable football stadium roofs surely we could have accomplished those tasks for far less money. The opportunity cost of the Apollo missions were enormous, even if there were positive outcomes that spun out of it. Or to put it more elegantly: "Stop there! Your theory is confined to that which is seen; it takes no account of that which is not…

> The opportunity cost of the Apollo missions were enormous, even if there were positive outcomes that spun out of it. True, but if you're talking opportunity costs then I see Apollo, and the space race in general, as a great success story. They took the polotical atmosphere of nationalism, paranoia, one-upmanship, costly signalling, etc. and funnelled some of it into exploration, science and engineering at otherwise…

Reached Moon vs Had planet-destroying nuclear war.

Sounds like a bargain to me.

Re: The average size of Web pages is now the average size of a Doom install

#294

I'm skeptical that developers talking to each other about how bad web bloat is will change anything. They will still face the same incentives in terms of ad revenue, costs of optimization, etc. Here's a random idea that might have more potential: create an adblocker browser plugin that also colors URLs based on how slow they are expected to load, e.g., smoothly from blue to red. The scores could be centrally calculat…

Something that would be more effective is if Google began factoring page load speeds in their rankings just like they did for mobile optimization.

They do

Re: The average size of Web pages is now the average size of a Doom install

#295
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a plugin that enables the chrome "regular 2G" throttling (developer tools / network tab), permanently, for anyone that works in marketing or web development might help :) Edit: Joking aside, that throttling feature is a nice easy way to let a dev team, or business counterpart, see what their site is like for say, a customer with a low-end DSL connection: https://developers.google.com/web/tools/chrome-devtools…

No need for a plugin if you are running Linux or OSX: # Bandwidth trottling, enabling 150kB/s on port 80 sudo ipfw pipe 1 config bw 15KByte/s sudo ipfw add 1 pipe 1 src-port 80 # Bandwidth trottling, disable sudo ipfw delete 1 More useful stuff here as well, please star the repo :) https://github.com/logotype/useful-unix-stuff/blob/master/us...

sounds like that could have a lot of unintended consequences. especially since so much data is now transmitted over port 80

Re: The average size of Web pages is now the average size of a Doom install

#296
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with hosting JS libraries on CDNs is that the cache has a network effect. You only gain performance if the browser already has a cached version of this specific version on this specific CDN. If you don't - you end up losing performance, because now an additional DNS lookup needs to be performed, and an additional TCP connection needs to be opened. Here are a few reasons people choose to avoid CDNized vers…

the reason why I prefer to use a cdn is because it is a games theory example come to life here - if everyone used the cdn version then any user coming to your site would most likely have the cdn version in their cache and thus performance would go up, but if you use the cdn version and your competitors don't their performance is slightly better than yours and so on and so forth. Games theory indicates that in most ga…

but there isn't 1 CDN, or 1 version... if you need two libraries, but the canonical CDN for jquery is on one, and your required extension is on another... that's two DNS lookups, connections, request cycles, etc.

So you use the one that has both, but one is not canonical, which means more cache misses. That doesn't even count the fact that there are different versions of each library, each with it's own uses, and distribution, and the common CDN approach becomes far less valuable.

In the end, you're better off compositing micro-frameworks and building yourself. Though this takes effort... React + Redux with max compression in a simple webpack project seems to take about 65K for me, before actually adding much to the project. Which isn't bad at all... if I can keep the rest of the project under 250K, that's less than the CSS + webfonts. It's still half a mb though... just the same, it's way better than a lot of sites manage, even with CDNs

Re: The average size of Web pages is now the average size of a Doom install

#297
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with hosting JS libraries on CDNs is that the cache has a network effect. You only gain performance if the browser already has a cached version of this specific version on this specific CDN. If you don't - you end up losing performance, because now an additional DNS lookup needs to be performed, and an additional TCP connection needs to be opened. Here are a few reasons people choose to avoid CDNized vers…

This is why I recommended using the CDN recommended by the project, most do recommend a CDN, for example jQuery has it's own CDN. As for adoption, that is very much a chicken and egg problem.

Even then, different versions will have their own misses... not to mention 3rd party libraries on another CDN means another DNS hit.

DNS resolution time is a pretty significant impact for a lot of sites.

Re: The average size of Web pages is now the average size of a Doom install

#298
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are looking at the past through incredibly rose-tinted glasses. The web has been a mess for a long time, and we used to have to make sure our computer was set to 800x600 and we were using Internet Explorer 6 in order to even use it.

I'm pretty sure I had > 1024x768 graphics and have used nothing but Netscape/Seamonkey (because inertia) since the mid '90s.

Sadly, a lot of laptops come with only 1366x768 displays, 20 years later. What a lack of progress.

Re: The average size of Web pages is now the average size of a Doom install

#299
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that a possible solution is also to better rank websites that mention the checksums of their external resources and make web browsers keep them in cache much longer... if pretty much every website uses jQuery, perhaps we should ship jQuery with the web browser?

We absolutely, most certainly, should NOT ship libraries with browsers. This is a horrible idea. Browser vendors would then have too much influence on development libraries.

I think the direction of the influence would mostly works the other way round. If there's an attribute on the HTML link tag that some browsers recognise as calling the browser's client-side version of that library (with local/CDN fallback for browsers that don't) then users are going to notice that browser X seems to load a lot of websites more quickly than browser Y, which puts pressure on the vendor of browser Y to make sure it also supports these frequently-used js libraries (especially if they're large frequently-used libraries with multiple minor version numbers and no widely-accepted-as-canonical CDN source)

This is still a shame if you're maintaining a heavyweight alternative to jQuery or React which is far too obscure to be a consideration for browser vendors, but it's a big boon for users, especially users on slow or metered connections that download several different version numbers of jQuery from several different CDNs every day.

Re: The average size of Web pages is now the average size of a Doom install

#300
Send “models” rather than code. Low-level code is relatively unexpressive, contains considerable redundancy, and as a result, is relatively large. By sending high-level models instead, which are then expanded on the client to working code, application download size can be greatly decreased. Models typically provide one to two orders of magnitude of compression over code.

This video shows how we do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4LbUv5FsGQ

This document gives some results (like a GMail client that is 100X smaller): https://docs.google.com/a/google.com/document/d/1Kuw6_sMCKE7...

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