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A Protocol for Dying

hintjens.com

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Re: A Protocol for Dying

#111

Post by restalis »

musha68k wrote: post #65
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #17

I didn't know Pieter before today. He's one of the coolest people I've had the good fortune of coming across: > My first free software is from 1991. I realized the power of community gradually from 2005 when fighting software patents in Europe. I refined and tested the techniques in the ffii for projects like digistan. I saw the failure of money and power in amqp. In zeromq it took years to find the right patterns. I…

And do yourself a favour and buy his highly insightful and all-around great-to-read books: http://hintjens.com/books

He gives his books for free, so I can't imagine what buying would do for him (as I presume the paid sum is just the price asked by publishers for their service/channel). If you wish to support him you can do it more directly.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#112

Post by TeMPOraL »

Neslit wrote: post #105
azazqadir wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, it doesn't have to be accurate. It just have to make sense to a child.

To put it bluntly, I can think of a number of other cases where (1) people say things to children because it is more pleasant or convenient, not because it is true, and (2) these misleading statements have negative effects later. In this case, it seems potentially worthwhile to keep in view that death is actually not a good thing, and that it would better if there weren't death, and that we want to keep an eye out fo…

I can not understand this approach to parenting. I had the luck of my parents never lying to me to shut me up. Even the "hard topics" of sex were handled properly even before I started asking about it myself.

> (2) these misleading statements have negative effects later.

Yes. And I had to fix that damage in people too. You know, sharing an interesting tidbit of information with a person close to me only for her to suddenly realize it was another thing her father mislead her about. Lying to children is like placing relationship landmines - your kids will step on them many years later and it will damage your relationship with them.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#113

Post by melling »

imminent wrote: post #44
melling wrote: post #18

He seems to have accepted his fate but you still have to wonder if there isn't an immunotherapy treatment that would work for him. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/persona... 91 year old former President Jimmy Carter had brain cancer and was recently treated with it and he was cured. https://www.mskcc.org/blog/understanding-jimmy-carter-s-surp... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/…

Have you read the article?

Yes, twice.

He said that chemo was the only thing he was trying. Does that mean we can't discuss immunotherapy here? Perhaps there are other people reading in a similar situation, or who will be in a few short years. Time and knowledge could make a difference.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#114

Post by srameshc »

Been a fan of Pieter Hintjens since 2010 when I found ZeroMQ and read that ZMQ guide which was the most easy to read and fun technical guide that I read ever. I tweeted and he replied back, and I was startstruck by a tech superstar. He was always fun to follow and I remember one of his tweets where he says we don't even need fruit sugar, though I never followed that advice :) As graceful as ever. Godspeed Pieter.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#115

Post by aninhumer »

anexprogrammer wrote: post #75
asimuvPR wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you accurately explain death to a toddler? It is a good analogy that takes the toddler's feelings into account. Daddy ran out of Legos but he loves you. Quite beautiful actually.

downvotes? I'm not sure how this rates those. Accuracy isn't really helpful to a five year old who doesn't yet have all the concepts needed. The tooth fairy isn't accurate either. Accuracy will get you an endless cycle of "but why dad?"

> Accuracy will get you an endless cycle of "but why dad?"

So keep answering until you can't, and then say "I don't know". Curiosity is something to be fostered, not shutdown with lies.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#116

Post by bcg1 »

The first time I came across Pieter was when he was interviewed about ZeroMQ on FLOSS weekly. I've come to find his writing to be engaging and informative, and thank him for that.

His series of articles on psychopaths and the havoc they wreak is well worth reading, even if it takes a while to take it all in.

My best lesson I learned on programming from Pieter was to use code generators effectively. The advantages cannot be overstated.

Thank you Pieter, you will be missed.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#117

Post by random_upvoter »

flashman wrote: post #61

> Imagine you have a box of Lego, and you build a house, and you keep it. And you keep making new houses, and never breaking the old ones. What happens? "The box gets empty, Daddy." Good, yes. And can you make new houses then? "No, not really." So we're like a Lego houses, and when we die our pieces get broken up and put back in the box. We die, and new babies can be born. It is the wheel of life. I am stealing this.

What's so horrible about confessing to your kid that you don't have all the answers?

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#118

Post by Juliate »

tomp wrote: post #71
nemo1618 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hesitant to answer for nikolay, but my guess is that he has indeed made such choices -- one of them being to live according to the doctrines prescribed by his religion. Rigidly adhering to dogma is something that many people take pride in. When done consciously, it's not blind obedience; it's a sort of trust in the groundwork that has been laid by your ancestors. In other words, to simply "pick and choose" would…

> In other words, to simply "pick and choose" would denigrate the tradition that nikolay has decided to uphold. I guess what I'm missing here, is how does one come to such a decision. After all, the "tradition" is just an arbitrary set of rules that was made up by someone sometime in the past. I mean, even the name "Eastern Orthodox Christian" reveals that it's a refinement of Christianity, which is itself a refineme…

> what makes one consciously decide that a set of rules made up by someone else, which may or may not still be relevant, is the best way to conduct one's life?

That may not be the best. But good enough given the circumstances (time, community, energy, freedom, incentives, capacity, will, goals)?

Analogy: what makes you decide that using a fork is (not) the best way to eat some sorts of food? What makes you decide that a pair of trousers is (not) the most appropriate dress for a person? What makes you decide that nudity is (not) appropriate in a given context?

That's a piece of practical, ornemental, societal, cultural refinements made by a set of people, over centuries. And it IS practical/ornemental/societal/cultural. But what if there was an other, universal, better way? What if not? Or what if, but not (yet) in our reach?

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#119

Post by AlexeyBrin »

lawlessone wrote: post #52
nikolay wrote: post #30

As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, euthanasia would not be an option to me, but I really hope I'd never have to think about it as a choice. I had an early stage melanoma in 2004 and I know I "beat it", but I also know it's all a matter of time and I made some important lifestyle changes and most importantly - switching to a ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting. (Well, also as an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I'm curr…

"As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, euthanasia would not be an option to me," why?

Taking your own life is seen as a mortal sin by most Christian traditions, mortal sin as in there is no forgiveness for this and you go straight to Hell. Not sure about other traditions but in the case of Orthodox and Catholic Church you are, for example, forbidden to be buried in sacred ground if you take your own life.

If you are curious you should read a bit about the history of Christianity, e.g. a Eastern Orthodox Christianity tends to be more entrenched in tradition than modern Catholic Christianity. You don't have to be a believer to read about history.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#120

Post by EugeneOZ »

anexprogrammer wrote: post #75
asimuvPR wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you accurately explain death to a toddler? It is a good analogy that takes the toddler's feelings into account. Daddy ran out of Legos but he loves you. Quite beautiful actually.

downvotes? I'm not sure how this rates those. Accuracy isn't really helpful to a five year old who doesn't yet have all the concepts needed. The tooth fairy isn't accurate either. Accuracy will get you an endless cycle of "but why dad?"

Maybe they want to explain their kids all details of the illness, all details of dying and suffering - maybe they think it's acceptable for toddlers. Or maybe they are just too young/stupid/naive to understand it.
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