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A Protocol for Dying

hintjens.com

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101–110 of 347 posts

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#101

Post by coldpie »

danburgo wrote: post #86

These words hit close to home. My dad just passed away from cancer/diabetes in Florida and had to endure the "barbaric torture of decay and failure". Basically 4 months suffering in bed until he eventually denied eating anything and his liver failed. I asked the nurses repeatedly if there was anything to help him go or pass and there was nothing. Something's got to change in the US, we treat animals better than human…

I'm sorry you had to experience that. Some states do allow euthanasia, it's not a federal ban. Unfortunately by the time you know you need it, mobility is often difficult. I'm still young and I desperately hope something changes before I have to answer this question myself. If not, I may move to a better state if I'm lucky enough for the decline to be slow. Meanwhile I'm frightened for my family and loved ones.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#102

Post by Neslit »

anonymous777 wrote: post #84

This whole thread reeks of death acceptance culture. HN readers show off how cool they are for accepting death instead of discussing how we as a tech community could help cure these diseases or at least give more people an option of being cryopreserved. The really unpleasant truth is that if we as a society began doing serious focused R&D on these life-threatening diseases earlier, the OP and many others wouldn't hav…

I agree that it is confusing and painful (and stupid) that cryopreservation does not get way more attention.

But, your comment seems a little overly barbed, no? It seems like there would be more positive ways to say what you are saying.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#103

Post by coldpie »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #90
Angostura wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is it inaccurate? It seems a fairly decent summary of the Carbon cycle.

The inaccuracy is that in reality, the box of Legos is huge and nowhere near running out of bricks. If suddenly all humans on Earth stopped dying, the carbon cycle wouldn't even notice it for centuries or more (the things we'd be doing to control overpopulation are another topic though).

Why are you assuming the analogy is to physical resources instead of "population slots," for lack of a better term? The old have to die for the young to move forward, which is one thing that gives me pause about immortality research.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#104

Post by TeMPOraL »

tomp wrote: post #71
nemo1618 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hesitant to answer for nikolay, but my guess is that he has indeed made such choices -- one of them being to live according to the doctrines prescribed by his religion. Rigidly adhering to dogma is something that many people take pride in. When done consciously, it's not blind obedience; it's a sort of trust in the groundwork that has been laid by your ancestors. In other words, to simply "pick and choose" would…

> In other words, to simply "pick and choose" would denigrate the tradition that nikolay has decided to uphold. I guess what I'm missing here, is how does one come to such a decision. After all, the "tradition" is just an arbitrary set of rules that was made up by someone sometime in the past. I mean, even the name "Eastern Orthodox Christian" reveals that it's a refinement of Christianity, which is itself a refineme…

There's no such thing as "faith" as separate to "knowing something is true". Many people who even call themselves religious miss that. If you really believe that the doctrines of your faith are God's prescriptions (and there are ways to make that as a logical inference of some basic axioms within the system of a religion), then it's not "arbitrary set of rules" - it's the set of rules God wants you to follow. That's how actual faith works.

(Speaking from experience; I used to be a true believer.)

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#105

Post by Neslit »

azazqadir wrote: post #80
msamwald wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be consoling to some, but it is hardly accurate.

The point is, it doesn't have to be accurate. It just have to make sense to a child.

To put it bluntly, I can think of a number of other cases where

(1) people say things to children because it is more pleasant or convenient, not because it is true, and

(2) these misleading statements have negative effects later.

In this case, it seems potentially worthwhile to keep in view that death is actually not a good thing, and that it would better if there weren't death, and that we want to keep an eye out for opportunities to prevent death. "You do not make peace with darkness!"

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#106

Post by rbanffy »

augustl wrote: post #27

It would be interesting to see how many of us that has had conversations with Pieter Hintjens. I suspect a sizable chunk of the HN crowd has interacted with him. I've enjoyed his company on many conferences, and while he presents himself in a very direct manner, he is also friendly and enjoyable to talk with.

I am a bit saddened I never had the chance. He seems like a great guy.

Knowing how to die is as important as knowing how to live, perhaps more. As he leaves us, he is giving us all an important lesson.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#107

Post by TeMPOraL »

coldpie wrote: post #103
TeMPOraL wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inaccuracy is that in reality, the box of Legos is huge and nowhere near running out of bricks. If suddenly all humans on Earth stopped dying, the carbon cycle wouldn't even notice it for centuries or more (the things we'd be doing to control overpopulation are another topic though).

Why are you assuming the analogy is to physical resources instead of "population slots," for lack of a better term? The old have to die for the young to move forward, which is one thing that gives me pause about immortality research.

Because the analogy is about Lego box and making new houses, as opposed to e.g. fitting new houses on a finite Lego base plate[0].

I don't buy the "population slots". 100 years ago, the "population slots" were limited to at most 2 billion, back before Harber-Bosch[1]. There's a lot of space to use - we can live under the sea, we'll finally have an economic reason for that Mars colony. And we can stop making children so much too. Those things are actually easier than beating death, so - with added incentive to actually making them happen - you can expect them coming before people actually get immortal.

[0] - http://www.amazon.com/LEGO-X-Large-Gray-Baseplate-628/dp/B00...

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#109

Post by augustl »

PieterH wrote: post #35
augustl wrote: post #27

It would be interesting to see how many of us that has had conversations with Pieter Hintjens. I suspect a sizable chunk of the HN crowd has interacted with him. I've enjoyed his company on many conferences, and while he presents himself in a very direct manner, he is also friendly and enjoyable to talk with.

Funny, that is how I feel about 95% of the thousands of programmers I've talked with over the last years. :)

I'm not sure why, but something makes you stand out. I love that you present without slides, for example, and I can't think of anyone else doing that.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#110

Post by _pmf_ »

Maybe his publishers could increase revenue percentages for him from his books sales; I did not even know he was an author, otherwise I would have bought one or two of his books earlier.
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