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Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

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Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#111

Post by dagw »

jessaustin wrote: post #110
dagw wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He could also fly to Murmansk and cut the drive in half. Personally I'd fly to Murmansk, drive a couple of hours to Kirkenes, and spend a few lovely days taking the boat down the coast to Bergen before grabbing a train to Oslo.

I don't think ocean travel is safe for him at this point. Many things can happen on a small boat in the Atlantic at night.

Many things can happen on a small boat in the Atlantic at night.

Sure, but nothing that can't also happen in a car on a small backcountry road at night. And anyway if he takes a passenger ferry he'll be constantly surrounded by hundreds of other people which is a hell of a lot more collateral damage to take into consideration if you're genuinely concerned about someone causing an 'accident'.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#112

Post by alkonaut »

vintermann wrote: post #100
alkonaut wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can circumvent it pretty easily by not saying "We will not extradite Edward Snowden" but simply doing by making a very clear statement of two facts: i) "We do not extradite anyone who would risk a death penalty" and ii) "We believe it is clear that Edward Snowden would risk a death penalty in the US". Having said those two things (which they can), they have implied the what he wants to know, without breaking any…

It's also a myth that Sweden can't do the same for Assange (although one defended by certain lawyers for political reasons). The courts can only stop extraditions, not non-extraditions. Politicians like to pretend their hands are tied because they would like to blame the bureaucracy for unpopular decisions, but they have full freedom to interpret their own bilateral treaty obligations. If the Norwegian government say…

> The courts can only stop extraditions, not non-extraditions.

Not sure what you are implying by that. An extradition is tried in a court (if the person to be extradited does not want to be extradited). The supreme court tries the extradition against the legislation and then hands it to the government for decision [1].

I think you may be thinking about this passage from[1]:

"Anser Högsta domstolen att det finns hinder mot utlämning, får regeringen inte bifalla framställningen. Regeringen kan dock neka utlämning även om Högsta domstolen inte har motsatt sig en utlämning; i lagen anges nämligen att en person under vissa förutsättningar "må" utlämnas - inte "ska" utlämnas."

It says that if the courts find that extradition is NOT legal, then the government may not extradite, but if the court recommends the extradition (i.e. find it legal) then the government can still deny it.

So while it is true that the govrenment CAN in any situation reject any extradition - it is out of the question for a government to forego the court process. This would be known as "Ministerstyre" (an action by a member of a government or a cabinet, which is to be interpreted - or can be interpreted - as dictating, or interfering with, the daily workings of a government agency, court of law or similar.).

One can call that "bureaucracy" but the fact remains - the swedish government would just not do that.

[1] http://www.regeringen.se/sveriges-regering/justitiedeparteme...

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#113

Post by celticninja »

PlzSnow wrote: post #52

If he's so courageous then why doesn't he ever criticise the corrupt totalitarian state of Russia? I really can't imagine why...

perhaps because he has no concrete information on their behaviour whereas he had exactly that on his own US government.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#114

Post by notahacker »

mercurial wrote: post #55

How hard does the US government want him back, now that the cat is out of the bag? Obviously, the US don't want to appear "soft" on the matter - the interest of the administration is to avoid future whistleblowers by having a tough posture. But Snowden has a pretty massive following worldwide, on a scale that Assange and Chelsea Manning don't have. Wouldn't a trial be a terrible PR move, on top of raising embarrassin…

Agree. With Assange I think it's even more obviously the case that it wouldn't actually be in US government interests to bring him to trial in the US. He's a skilled communicator, has a similar and even more fanatically loyal following, is a civilian holding the passport of of an allied state, and it's by no means certain what they could charge him with never mind how they could secure a conviction that looked like justice to the average voter. I bet security chiefs were besides themselves with glee when allegations completely unrelated to his day-to-day activities emerged, and even more delighted when his response was to refuse to defend himself against the allegation on the basis that it must be part of a coordinated dirty tricks campaign against his freedom of speech.

It's great to get the chilling effect on those most likely to be motivated to expose government wrongdoing without actually having to do anything, never mind do something that the average voter might think is going too far.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#115

Post by xaduha »

rev wrote: post #101
exabrial wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would care you think?

Actually the better question is why would they care about Snowden leaving (or not leaving) Russia? Or why wouldn't Putin let Snowden leave? Snowden is a minor liability for Russia.

I think Snowden is valuable to Putin, he's not just a liability.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#116

Post by Grue3 »

hartpuff wrote: post #67
PlzSnow wrote: post #52

If he's so courageous then why doesn't he ever criticise the corrupt totalitarian state of Russia? I really can't imagine why...

You can be courageous without being suicidal.

How is it courageous to safely live (and have permanent residency) in Russia and criticize the US? This is basically what every pro-Putin Russian politican does every single day.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#117

Post by mc32 »

toyg wrote: post #83
mc32 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibility, yes, but realistically no. I don't see them kidnapping him as a way to bring him before US courts. If I were him I'd be a little more worried about local gangs with little to do and one too many crazy ideas knowing who he is and trying to kidnap him and avail him at some price.

> If I were him I'd be a little more worried about local gangs Yeah, all those famous Norwegian kidnapping gangs. /facepalm

Rural Russia isn't exactly the manicured place you imagine it to be.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#118

Post by toyg »

mc32 wrote: post #117
toyg wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I were him I'd be a little more worried about local gangs Yeah, all those famous Norwegian kidnapping gangs. /facepalm

Rural Russia isn't exactly the manicured place you imagine it to be.

Ah yeah, I thought you referred to the situation once he crossed the border.

Inside Russia, I would expect his transport to be Putin-approved, which is probably the safest you can get.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#120

Post by tremon »

notahacker wrote: post #109
pluma wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think he would be brought before US courts if he were kidnapped? Given the US intelligence services' track record it's far more likely a kidnapping would result in his disappearance -- alive or not.

I'm aware that the US doesn't always make the best geopolitical decisions, but alienating every single European ally you have in order to eliminate one high profile, non-dangerous violator of official secrets acts seems like a fairly unlikely course of action for them to take...

Why is that unlikely? We have seen documents about CIA rendition across Europe, and Europe has even forced presidential planes to the ground on behalf of the USA. I don't share your optimism that Europe cares so much about Snowden that it would respond differently in his case.
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