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A Protocol for Dying

hintjens.com

61–70 of 347 posts

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#61
> Imagine you have a box of Lego, and you build a house, and you keep it. And you keep making new houses, and never breaking the old ones. What happens? "The box gets empty, Daddy." Good, yes. And can you make new houses then? "No, not really." So we're like a Lego houses, and when we die our pieces get broken up and put back in the box. We die, and new babies can be born. It is the wheel of life.

I am stealing this.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#62
post #30

As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, euthanasia would not be an option to me, but I really hope I'd never have to think about it as a choice. I had an early stage melanoma in 2004 and I know I "beat it", but I also know it's all a matter of time and I made some important lifestyle changes and most importantly - switching to a ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting. (Well, also as an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I'm curr…

> It's so pathetic that we as a society waste so much time and energy on non-essential stuff instead of curing major killers.

It's just as important to live as it is to not die.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hesitant to answer for nikolay, but my guess is that he has indeed made such choices -- one of them being to live according to the doctrines prescribed by his religion. Rigidly adhering to dogma is something that many people take pride in. When done consciously, it's not blind obedience; it's a sort of trust in the groundwork that has been laid by your ancestors. In other words, to simply "pick and choose" would…

I've seen orthodox religious people get into serious psychological problems after someone they loved died prematurely and unexpectedly. When you really believe that God has its hand in everything, death of a loved one is a hard thing to swallow: it must be some punishment or lesson, but why? Orthodox christian religion is i.m.o. not helpful at all when coping with death.

Christianity has never been about not suffering. Many early disciples had painful endings to their lives and went through many hardships. God was with them in their pain, not their ticket to a problem-free life, on their journey to heaven where "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more" [Revelation 21:4].

One women I know that was sick in cancer said it like this to a friend of mine: I have been with him [Jesus] too long to leave Him now.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hesitant to answer for nikolay, but my guess is that he has indeed made such choices -- one of them being to live according to the doctrines prescribed by his religion. Rigidly adhering to dogma is something that many people take pride in. When done consciously, it's not blind obedience; it's a sort of trust in the groundwork that has been laid by your ancestors. In other words, to simply "pick and choose" would…

I've seen orthodox religious people get into serious psychological problems after someone they loved died prematurely and unexpectedly. When you really believe that God has its hand in everything, death of a loved one is a hard thing to swallow: it must be some punishment or lesson, but why? Orthodox christian religion is i.m.o. not helpful at all when coping with death.

Most people grieve after someone dies. Some have a harder time than others. Being religious or not has hardly to do with it.

Being Christian has nothing to do with either believing that God has its hand in everything that governs your one personal life, or that it will actively intervene in a perceptible way, either believing that death is a punishment or a lesson or easy stuff or anything of this sort.

Although one may always add such opinions, or bigotry, to any kind of faith (be it Christian or not).

I mean, you may believe in God, or not, that won't stop the world. That won't make life different than what it is: you live, you die, shit happens, for some reason, or just because of no reason particular to you.

The core of being Christian is believing in the Credo (which is sort of crazy, indeed, and that's totally accepted) and following Jesus way (and even Brian's one - you know: always look at the bright side of life) and spirit. Which requires some sort of introspection, observation, patience, love, etc. Not to say it's easy either.

Then you add what tradition (catholic, eastern, orthodox, protestant, or so many others) you're in, or you've chosen.

What you believe is one thing. That should logically not prevent you from living and seeking.

(Catholic writing here)

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#65

I didn't know Pieter before today. He's one of the coolest people I've had the good fortune of coming across: > My first free software is from 1991. I realized the power of community gradually from 2005 when fighting software patents in Europe. I refined and tested the techniques in the ffii for projects like digistan. I saw the failure of money and power in amqp. In zeromq it took years to find the right patterns. I…

And do yourself a favour and buy his highly insightful and all-around great-to-read books:

http://hintjens.com/books

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#66
Good journey sir. Thank you for this piece. I feel your model should become an international standard.

I am saddened to see you are so young.

> ... and enforce the barbaric torture of decay and failure. It's especially relevant for cancer, which is a primary cause of death

I'm glad you find yourself somewhere enlightened. As someone who watched his father die of cancer over 2.5-3 years in the UK it almost robbed me of my father for a while. The last six months were brutal. He was either away with the fairies on Morphine, or in his increasingly rare lucid moments, pleading with NHS to reduce his dose. He chose pain and lucidity over a zombie state yet was often denied that choice as the system sought to reduce pain above all. He made it plain when he could, many times during the end months, that he didn't want to play this game any more.

Post death, our memories were of the brutality, of the incoherent husk on drugs who had had enough long since, of the ever increasing dosages and tripping in the system's wish to reduce pain, of the morphine smell. Of being increasingly worn down by it. It was harder in those early weeks after death to remember the real man, so defined by his mind, intelligence, humour and practical jokes. I still miss my best friend.

The UK is no nearer enlightenment on this topic today than 20 years ago when my father died. The views of those claiming a hotline to god, in our increasingly atheistic country, were exceptionally hard to hear, yet always sought in any media discussion of euthanasia.

I am thankful your children and other family will have the blessing of kinder memories.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#67

> Imagine you have a box of Lego, and you build a house, and you keep it. And you keep making new houses, and never breaking the old ones. What happens? "The box gets empty, Daddy." Good, yes. And can you make new houses then? "No, not really." So we're like a Lego houses, and when we die our pieces get broken up and put back in the box. We die, and new babies can be born. It is the wheel of life. I am stealing this.

It might be consoling to some, but it is hardly accurate.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#68
post #40

Another sad day for the software community. I'm a big fan of 0mq and the work that Pieter has done. As for the euthanasia, my wife's aunt died of cervical cancer and it was very rough, not only on her, but on her entire family. It's not an exaggeration to say that they likely all have PTSD from the experience. I'm not a proponent of euthanasia but I can see the appeal. It probably depends a lot on the individual situ…

Bear in mind, you don't have to be a proponent of something in order to support the right of people to choose it.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#69
post #57

i like to hope that i will never die because by the time i age humanity would have evolved to the point of curing all forms of cancer and extending life past 100 years of age.

This is an extremely odd thing to comment. You may be right, but your comment just feels inappropriate in the context of this thread.

Re: A Protocol for Dying

#70

> Imagine you have a box of Lego, and you build a house, and you keep it. And you keep making new houses, and never breaking the old ones. What happens? "The box gets empty, Daddy." Good, yes. And can you make new houses then? "No, not really." So we're like a Lego houses, and when we die our pieces get broken up and put back in the box. We die, and new babies can be born. It is the wheel of life. I am stealing this.

It might be consoling to some, but it is hardly accurate.

How would you accurately explain death to a toddler? It is a good analogy that takes the toddler's feelings into account. Daddy ran out of Legos but he loves you. Quite beautiful actually.
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