The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You • Hacker News Board

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#11

Post by toyg » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:19 AM UTC

cperciva wrote: post #5

When I saw the title I thought this was going to be about Canada. Suicide rates are extremely high in some aboriginal communities; in Attawapiskat for example, 5% of the residents have attempted suicide in the past year. And I can't say that I really blame them. Attawapiskat is an extremely isolated community, with few jobs and no amenities. Kids growing up in Attawapiskat have nothing to look forward to. Those who l…

> Attawapiskat is an extremely isolated community, with few jobs and no amenities.

Thing is, like the towns in the post, these have always been "isolated communities with few jobs", but they used to be somewhat content. The difference is that they (like everyone else) are now bombarded with very powerful messages about rich and successful white people living in the Big City. They are basically getting constantly shamed for doing what their ancestors have done for generations. Those same powers of connectedness that can be so positive in certain cases (e.g. alienated small-town geeks finding accepting communities elsewhere) can often turn out to be trojan horses for cultural shaming.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#12

Post by trhway » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:26 AM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #8

dirktheman wrote: post #2

Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world. And no, it's not just the dark that makes people commit suicide. Of the top 10 countries with the highest suicide rates, only Lithuania can be considered as having a somewhat gloomy winter. The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countrie…

> The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countries generally accepted as happiest in the world: Denmark (ironically, considering the story), Switzerland, Iceland and Norway. South Korea as well, its latitude roughly matches the northern half of Tunisia (Seoul's latitude is 37°33′N, Tunisia's northernmost city of Bizerte is at 37°16′N) [0] https://en.wiki…

South Korea is definitely not about weather :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea#Age

"The main cause of South Korea's relatively high suicide rate is due to the elderly's substantially high suicide rate, which is significantly dragging up the otherwise relatively low average rate. This is due to poor elderly people killing themselves not to be a burden on their families,..."

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#13

Post by romanovcode » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:26 AM UTC

This is wrong and have nothing to do with "successful white people" and quite frankly your remark is racist.

Their ancestors were hunters and this gave them purpose in life as well as good diet which led to much happier life. Now they have nothing to do except watch TV and sit on their couch and eat bad food. Of course they are unhappy, you would be too.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#14

Post by Aaargh20318 » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:29 AM UTC

dirktheman wrote: post #2

Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world. And no, it's not just the dark that makes people commit suicide. Of the top 10 countries with the highest suicide rates, only Lithuania can be considered as having a somewhat gloomy winter. The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countrie…

> Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world

I find articles like this highly annoying. I see the headline, think "if it's not the darkness, I wonder what is" and click the link expecting to find the answer. Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about.

How about we stop with crap like this, I don't need to hear a story, just the facts please. I've wasted several minutes on this story and still have no clue what the real reason is.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#15

Post by rntz » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:34 AM UTC

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #14

dirktheman wrote: post #2

Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world. And no, it's not just the dark that makes people commit suicide. Of the top 10 countries with the highest suicide rates, only Lithuania can be considered as having a somewhat gloomy winter. The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countrie…

> Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world I find articles like this highly annoying. I see the headline, think "if it's not the darkness, I wonder what is" and click the link expecting to find the answer. Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. How about we stop with crap like thi…

From the article:

> Like native people all around the Arctic — and all over the world — Greenlanders were seeing the deadly effects of rapid modernization and unprecedented cultural interference. [...] Between 1970 and 1980, the suicide rate there quadrupled to about seven times the U.S. rate (it's still about six times higher).

> Her observations are in line with something psychologists and sociologists think is fundamental to the causes of suicide in Greenland. When communities are disrupted, like Kangeq was, families start to collapse. There's an increase in alcoholism, child neglect and physical abuse, all of which are risk factors for suicide. Later, people who didn't get the love and support they needed as children find it difficult to cope with the routine heartbreak of dating, and a breakup becomes the final insult in a lifetime of hurt.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#16

Post by coldtea » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:44 AM UTC

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #14

dirktheman wrote: post #2

Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world. And no, it's not just the dark that makes people commit suicide. Of the top 10 countries with the highest suicide rates, only Lithuania can be considered as having a somewhat gloomy winter. The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countrie…

> Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world I find articles like this highly annoying. I see the headline, think "if it's not the darkness, I wonder what is" and click the link expecting to find the answer. Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. How about we stop with crap like thi…

>Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. [...] How about we stop with crap like this, I don't need to hear a story, just the facts please. I've wasted several minutes on this story and still have no clue what the real reason is.

If you don't care for the lives affected by the phenomenon, then why would you be caring for the reason?

That's something even less important to know if one doesn't care about the effects.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#17

Post by ethanbond » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:46 AM UTC

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #14

dirktheman wrote: post #2

Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world. And no, it's not just the dark that makes people commit suicide. Of the top 10 countries with the highest suicide rates, only Lithuania can be considered as having a somewhat gloomy winter. The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countrie…

> Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world I find articles like this highly annoying. I see the headline, think "if it's not the darkness, I wonder what is" and click the link expecting to find the answer. Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. How about we stop with crap like thi…

Well facts are usually more difficult to arrive at than you apparently think.

Putting forward a hypothesis requires facts and a ton of "fluff." It seems to me that you're not actually interested in learning anything, you just want some factoids. Try the CIA Factbook.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#18

Post by exDM69 » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:48 AM UTC

I live 60 degrees northern latitude in a country with bad suicide statistics and the winters do get pretty harsh on you mentally. And there's still millions of people living norther than I do.

Highest suicide rates occur during the spring, around the vernal equinox not around the darkest time of the year. If you've never experienced the northern spring where each day is 10+ minutes longer than the previous, you'll never understand it. It just fucks up your mind in ways that are hard to describe.

My kitchen psychology thinks the high suicide rates in the spring may be related to the fact that people around you start to get more positive and active (some too much so) but if you're suffering from a bad depression, seeing that around you will make it worse.

It's not just suicides that peak. It also affects breakup/divorce rates as well as forming new relationships. It probably affects professional careers too, but I don't know if there are stats about it.

The long, dark winters and the rapid change that follows brings out some very primal sides. That being said, I'd recommend travel to the extreme latitudes around the solstices, both of them.

side note: we have about 15 hour long days at the moment. It's still pretty dark at night but I can't wait for the summer when you can see the sunset and sunrise at the same time if you look to the north at around midnight... it's magical.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#19

Post by toyg » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 10:58 AM UTC

romanovcode wrote: post #13

This is wrong and have nothing to do with "successful white people" and quite frankly your remark is racist. Their ancestors were hunters and this gave them purpose in life as well as good diet which led to much happier life. Now they have nothing to do except watch TV and sit on their couch and eat bad food. Of course they are unhappy, you would be too.

Bad food and TV didn't materialise out of thin air, they are part and parcel of that cultural bombing I was talking about.

I struggle to see how it's racist to admit that white people traditionally own and define the mainstream culture of places like Denmark and Canada. You cannot fix a problem if you don't admit you have one; the main problem here is that modern mainstream white capitalist culture (to which I belong and partake) might not necessarily suit all environments and all communities, and we have to find ways around that.

EDIT: note that I don't have anything against "successful white people", I'm just pointing out that our culture constantly sends out messages saying you should be like (some of) them, which might not be the best course of action in all situations. Zuck himself does not tell the media to glorify him, but they do it anyway; he might not be the best role model for the average not-white, not-male, not-Californian, not-Stanford-attending, not-programming-passionate person though, and when a lot of these not-zuck-like people see the Zuck-worshiping, they get a metaphorical kick in the teeth. Same for Hollywood celebs and so on. This is what I meant.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#20

Post by dirktheman » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 11:20 AM UTC

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #14

dirktheman wrote: post #2

Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world. And no, it's not just the dark that makes people commit suicide. Of the top 10 countries with the highest suicide rates, only Lithuania can be considered as having a somewhat gloomy winter. The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countrie…

> Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world I find articles like this highly annoying. I see the headline, think "if it's not the darkness, I wonder what is" and click the link expecting to find the answer. Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. How about we stop with crap like thi…

To be fair, the title doesn't say it will tell you why the suicide rate in Greenland is so high...

Fact is, it isn't completely clear why the rate is so high. Rapid modernization, decades of Danish control, a disappearing culture/way of life and lack of mental health facilities can all be named as factors.

Sorry were annoyed and feel like you've wasted your time on a well written, well researched human interest piece. And yes, sometimes you need to know just the bare facts. But do you really have to know the reasons behind the high suicide rate in Greenland? Or were you triggered by the headline? In that case a human interest story conveys the message a lot better than just the numbers. To me, Hacker News is about triggering curiosity about things that were previously unknown by me. Stories like these remind me that there is a world beyond choosing if I want soy milk or regular milk in my mochachino.

But hey, let me save you a couple of minutes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Greenland#Reasons