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Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

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81–90 of 131 posts

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#81

So many threats along the way: 1) kidnap before reaching the airport 2) not be allowed to leave Russia 3) be intercepted between Russia and Norway 4) be caught in Norway after arrive 5) be caught in Norway before departure back to Russia 6) be caught during travel back to Russia 7) not be allowed to go back to Russia at all 8) be caught after arrive in Russia 9) be caught before going back to his apartment 10) be cau…

Numbers 1 and 9 through 11 are not really relevant for this discussion. Or is there evidence that he is restricted to his apartment (either by his own choice or by force)?

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#82

Remember Anders Behring? He was sentenced for 21 years for his terrorist attack in 2011. I find it hard to believe a country that has the most humane prison system in the world would extradite Snowden back the the US...

The Norwegian government is too entangled with US interests, due to our defense doctrine and role in NATO ("hold out for 24 hours while the rest of NATO mobilizes"). Although many Norwegian politicians probably have personal sympathies for Snowden's legal situation, it's very doubtful that anything short of a Supreme Court ruling would prevent Norwegian authorities of cooperating with the US when it comes to arresting and extraditing Snowden.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#83
post #40

Although technically Russia and Norway share a land border, you would have to drive thousands of miles through extremely remote arctic areas, where the major routes are single-lane roads and the nearest settlements may be hours apart. If one is worried about underhanded tactics by the US, this seems quite a dangerous way to go.

Possibility, yes, but realistically no. I don't see them kidnapping him as a way to bring him before US courts. If I were him I'd be a little more worried about local gangs with little to do and one too many crazy ideas knowing who he is and trying to kidnap him and avail him at some price.

> If I were him I'd be a little more worried about local gangs

Yeah, all those famous Norwegian kidnapping gangs. /facepalm

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#84
post #2

On Reuters (i.e. free): http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-snowden-norwa...

It's also free on WSJ when you come in with a Google referer. Google search for "wall street journal snowden assurance" worked for me.

I use the "web" link below the title for that ;-) (Didn't want to be snarky just friendly)

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#85
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably he'd drive, as Norway and Russia share a border. What isn't clear to me from the article is why he'd risk it for an award from a group of writers who have branches in Russia..

The Ossietzky price is awarded by the Norwegian branch of PEN. Carl von Ossietzky was the first Nobel Peace Prize recipient who wasn't able to receive his prize in person (he was ill and imprisoned in Nazi Germany), so it's a symbolic point for them to award it in the same place Ossietzky would have received his price, i.e. in the town hall of Oslo.

TBH it'd be even more powerful if Snowden could not receive the prize: "Western Europe is now at a point not reached even under the Third Reich."

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#86
post #32

I think if the US can have a President's plane redirected, forced to land, and searched, with that President on it, they wouldn't have much trouble getting Norway to look the other way for a few minutes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden#Morales_plane_i...

The forced landing of Morales' plane was probably one of those moments I felt most ashamed to be a European. It was an absolute disgrace and nobody seemed to care.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#87
post #82

Remember Anders Behring? He was sentenced for 21 years for his terrorist attack in 2011. I find it hard to believe a country that has the most humane prison system in the world would extradite Snowden back the the US...

The Norwegian government is too entangled with US interests, due to our defense doctrine and role in NATO ("hold out for 24 hours while the rest of NATO mobilizes"). Although many Norwegian politicians probably have personal sympathies for Snowden's legal situation, it's very doubtful that anything short of a Supreme Court ruling would prevent Norwegian authorities of cooperating with the US when it comes to arrestin…

> it's very doubtful that anything short of a Supreme Court ruling would prevent Norwegian authorities

Considering how international laws are now completely ignored by our imperial masters (see Abu Omar, rendition flights, the raid on Kim Dotcom, etc etc), I would say it's very doubtful anything short of a couple of panzer divisions would prevent any US-friendly authorities from helping out.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#88

How hard does the US government want him back, now that the cat is out of the bag? Obviously, the US don't want to appear "soft" on the matter - the interest of the administration is to avoid future whistleblowers by having a tough posture. But Snowden has a pretty massive following worldwide, on a scale that Assange and Chelsea Manning don't have. Wouldn't a trial be a terrible PR move, on top of raising embarrassin…

At this stage I'm certain one of three things will happen if the US can get a hold of him:

1) he will be secretly disappeared in a way that gives the US plausible deniability.

2) he will die in an "accident".

3) he will be taken to trial and put away for life, most likely in solitary confinement ("for his own safety").

It is obvious nobody actually cares about the activities of the NSA and their legality at this point. There has been some bad PR around it but all in all the American public hasn't revolted and the allies are still under control and don't want to risk it. Also, to this day, Snowden is routinely referred to as "a leaker" and US politicians' calls for his death and branding him as a traitor have been met with nary any criticism.

At this point it's no longer about what secrets Snowden can reveal, it's just about neutralizing what the US government (as in: politicians and state officials) considers a threat to its interests (as in: their interests, not those of the nation). And to make an example of him, obviously.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#89
post #40

Although technically Russia and Norway share a land border, you would have to drive thousands of miles through extremely remote arctic areas, where the major routes are single-lane roads and the nearest settlements may be hours apart. If one is worried about underhanded tactics by the US, this seems quite a dangerous way to go.

Possibility, yes, but realistically no. I don't see them kidnapping him as a way to bring him before US courts. If I were him I'd be a little more worried about local gangs with little to do and one too many crazy ideas knowing who he is and trying to kidnap him and avail him at some price.

What makes you think he would be brought before US courts if he were kidnapped? Given the US intelligence services' track record it's far more likely a kidnapping would result in his disappearance -- alive or not.

Re: Snowden Seeks Assurance from Norway It Won’t Extradite Him

#90
post #79
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It does, but is rarely used that way. The man wearing a sausage link necklace went on a nature walk and faced the music when bears showed up. That assumes the man did not first violate the sausage factory's trust by breaking numerous agreements pertaining to sausage use. > I'm just pointing out that the phrase is heavily biased to the point of being a dog whistle. Agreed; I dislike the phrase as well. It however do…

> That assumes the man did not first violate... My point exactly - your brain skips right over reckless or accidental and goes straight to malice. > ...doesn't absolve Snowden of responsibility. Not my intent, just pointing out the use of the phrase betrayed a thinly veiled hope for some federal pound me in the ass prison time. > ...foreign high-level leadership targets... If you are referring to NATO allies, then I…

>My point exactly - your brain skips right over reckless or accidental and goes straight to malice.

No, I was just trying to illustrate that the analogy is absurd given the context. Snowden was not unwitting and made explicit choices that had consequences, regardless of underlying motivation.

>Not my intent, just pointing out the use of the phrase betrayed a thinly veiled hope for some federal pound me in the ass prison time.

Agreed. Though, on the bright side the incidence of rape is probably nonexistent in a place like ADX Florence. You unfortunately just go crazy from solitary instead.

>This was already well known, supply chain security isn't a new concept. The consumers were the only ones surprised by this revelation.

Yeah, but it's still solid confirmation that a specific actor is doing a very specific thing—one which involved extremely sneaky custom hardware modifications with very fast turnaround times.

>The Italian police used this technique to identify 22 individuals alleged to be part of a CIA snatch team, in 2005.

This is actually apples and oranges. Cell phone surveillance has been around forever, and the Italians were leveraging the cellular networks in their own country at that.

What I'm referring to is automated co-traveler inference in foreign countries to protect friendly personnel. In other words, analyzing massive amounts of data in real-time to detect previously unknown persons based on movement alone. A prerequisite for doing that is first compromising the entire telecommunications network of whatever country you're operating in.

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